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John Bonham

Explain this to me

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AC/DC did it with Back in Black and everything after that.

Van Halen achieved massive success with 5150 and OU812

Even Black Sabbath was fairly successful with The Mob Rules and Heaven and Hell.

So, how do account for the relative failure of New GN'R?

What's the x-factor here?

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Axl.

The public hates him and wants him to fail?

I think the album was completely unrelatable to rock fans as a "Guns N' Roses" album. I truly believe that it would have been a homerun had it been done under his name as a solo album.

The sound just wasn't GNR and to keep fans waiting 14 years for something that foreign from what people love about Guns N' Roses was, to be blunt, a really dumb idea.

I'm sure the fact that Axl is crazy and refused to promote it didn't help matters.

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For me a lot of the blame rests on releasing Chinese Democracy as a first single. It's not that it is a bad song, it's just not a good choice for a first single. Better or SOD would have been a far better choice.

There was speculation that it was being released to take some of the flac it was bound to receive and then Better would come out to a less intense atmosphere. That idea falls flat when you don't promote the second single.

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It seems like there was a lot of wavering on this album when it was being released. We were first told that Better would be the lead single, then Shackler's Revenge, then....Chinese Democracy??? A song they'd already been playing live for 7 years. Brilliant. :facepalm:

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people moved on, and grew up. I remember telling people a new Guns album was out, and all I was asked was "is slash still with them"...

when you are out of the public eye for 14 (+) years, people move on and forget.

My 2 cents.

dPv

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Aside from Better and TWAT, there wasn't anything very appealing to the casual GNR fan on this album. GNR fans want bluesey/dirty rock. They don't want synths and NIN/Rob Zombie sounding songs. Not to mention I am not sure why Axl named the whole album off the song Chinese Democracy. It is an average song at best. It would be like naming UYI2 album "Shotgun Blues."

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people moved on, and grew up. I remember telling people a new Guns album was out, and all I was asked was "is slash still with them"...

when you are out of the public eye for 14 (+) years, people move on and forget.

That's a really good answer. Van Halen, Black Sabbath and AC/DC didn't take 14 years off.

However, Alice in Chains was gone for 14 years - I know their album didn't sell as many copies as ChiDem - but I would argue that they've been way more successful.

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people moved on, and grew up. I remember telling people a new Guns album was out, and all I was asked was "is slash still with them"...

when you are out of the public eye for 14 (+) years, people move on and forget.

That's a really good answer. Van Halen, Black Sabbath and AC/DC didn't take 14 years off.

However, Alice in Chains was gone for 14 years - I know their album didn't sell as many copies as ChiDem - but I would argue that they've been way more successful.

good call on AIC. However, they were gone due to Layne's overdose and death. People feel sorry for them. There is a sort of "what could have been if" about AIC, since they ended well before their due date.

I don't feel sorry for Axl stealing $13 000 000 and taking 14 (+) years while using the name of former glory. He is (from most accounts) the real reason gnr split.

Aic replaced the singer, but the core is still there with Jerry's song writting and singing...

I also agree that they are probably more successful than gnr. I rememebr hearing promo about the new AIC record for weeks, hearing interviews, and reading articles (if you can call them that on blabbermouth)...they did a better job marketing and promoting.

All we get is Slash is a cancer, and Ashblah is now plaining fincks parts who was playing slash's parts.

thoughts?

dpv

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It had very intense complex music with little casual fan appeal..........No toe tapping hooks or radio friendly songs you can singalong with in your car...AC/DC and Van Hagar had all of these attributes......

I have to respectfully disagree that it would have sold more if Axl had not used the GnR name and called it something like the Axl Rose band....I think a lot of copies sold because it was marketed as a GnR album not in spite of it.......it really would have tanked without the support of that recognizable brand name...............

That being said give credit where credit is due...it was hardly a failure as it sold an amazing number of copies in a tough music market with declining CD sales despite a lack of a hit single and little to no promotion

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Guest madison

He releases one album in 14 years and is too scared to promote it.

Ding ding. We have the winning answer. *This is one of those rare moments in time - perhaps a full moon is on tap tonight? - where bacardimayne and I are in full agreement.*

.. I have to respectfully disagree that it would have sold more if Axl had not used the GnR name and called it something like the Axl Rose band....I think a lot of copies sold because it was marketed as a GnR album not in spite of it.......it really would have tanked without the support of that recognizable brand name...............

I have to agree. Axl's decision to retain the GNR name was a smart business move and likely helped - not hurt - sales.

However, I do agree with those who say that CD doesn't sound like a GNR record. A friend of mine, who is just a casual GNR fan who didn't keep track of the lineup changes over the years, purchased CD and said he liked the album. But he also said he thought there were too many ballads on it and that it didn't sound like GNR.

Edited by madison

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He releases one album in 14 years and is too scared to promote it.

Ding ding. We have the winning answer. *This is one of those rare moments in time - perhaps a full moon is on tap tonight? - where bacardimayne and I are in full agreement.*

.. I have to respectfully disagree that it would have sold more if Axl had not used the GnR name and called it something like the Axl Rose band....I think a lot of copies sold because it was marketed as a GnR album not in spite of it.......it really would have tanked without the support of that recognizable brand name...............

I have to agree. Axl's decision to retain the GNR name was a smart business move and likely helped - not hurt - sales.

However, I do agree with those who say that CD doesn't sound like a GNR record. A friend of mine, who is just a casual GNR fan who didn't keep track of the lineup changes over the years, purchased CD and said he liked the album. But he also said he thought there were too many ballads on it and that it didn't sound like GNR.

Totally agree about the Guns name helping sales. However if it had been released as "Axl Rose Solo Project" I doubt it would have taken 14 years and might have sold copies depending on how relevant he was at the time.

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He releases one album in 14 years and is too scared to promote it.

Ding ding. We have the winning answer. *This is one of those rare moments in time - perhaps a full moon is on tap tonight? - where bacardimayne and I are in full agreement.*

.. I have to respectfully disagree that it would have sold more if Axl had not used the GnR name and called it something like the Axl Rose band....I think a lot of copies sold because it was marketed as a GnR album not in spite of it.......it really would have tanked without the support of that recognizable brand name...............

I have to agree. Axl's decision to retain the GNR name was a smart business move and likely helped - not hurt - sales.

However, I do agree with those who say that CD doesn't sound like a GNR record. A friend of mine, who is just a casual GNR fan who didn't keep track of the lineup changes over the years, purchased CD and said he liked the album. But he also said he thought there were too many ballads on it and that it didn't sound like GNR.

Totally agree about the Guns name helping sales. However if it had been released as "Axl Rose Solo Project" I doubt it would have taken 14 years and might have sold copies depending on how relevant he was at the time.

Do you really think so?? Why do you think Axl would have finished it faster? what would be different other than the band name?

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Guest madison
Do you really think so?? Why do you think Axl would have finished it faster? what would be different other than the band name?

Axl was under tremendous pressure to create an album that lived up to the GNR name. There were so many skeptics and critics out there who didn't believe Axl could do this without the original members. So, he had something to prove and he didn't want to fail. I mean, this is a guy who was playing tracks from the album at strip clubs and private parties to get feedback on whether he was on the right track or not. Clearly, he cared a lot about what people thought and was afraid to fail.

I don't think he would have had the same fears if he was releasing a solo album because he wouldn't have been facing the same pressures. So, I agree with the person who said the album would likely have come out a lot sooner if it wasn't under the GNR name.

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i dont think the name really sold albums. i think most who were interested knew slash was gone. there were probably a few christmas gifts "ohh the new guns n roses album, ill get ___ this" but i cant imagine many people bought the album thinking slash was involved? if you cared enough to spend 15 bucks to get the album you must be aware of the situation, i.e. the axl rose show. i think the name has a bigger effect on concert and festival bookings.

i think the name / split left such a bitter taste that a lot of people just wouldn't accept it. i know im not alone in this - i talked to quite a few people who had never heard a new gnr song but were adamant "its not guns n roses without slash". not just the old breed, im talking fellow students, 18-24, people bba would discount as too young. that opinion formed and wasn't changing. even of those who would admit they liked it, and there were many who felt this way, "ok its good but its not guns n roses".

and the lack of promotion, of course. there was faceless promotion, but thats not what counts. axl needed to get out there. he could have done it if he wanted to. he didnt have to do leno, he had no problem doing eddie trunk in 2006, and he did great, why couldn't he do that again?

:shrugs:

whatever - it is what it is. bring on CDii, studio release or leak.

Edited by Turbo Jetts

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i dont think the name really sold albums.

Really ?

Do you think that if CD was another band's debut album, it would have sold 4 to 6 million copies like Guns did ?

I mean, with no active promotion by the band etc...

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Can't understand Axl's genius, bitch? That's unfortunate.

Piss off. Go eat bucket of KFC and then put it on your head and walk up and down the street like the pathetic freak that you are.

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i dont think the name really sold albums.

Really ?

Do you think that if CD was another band's debut album, it would have sold 4 to 6 million copies like Guns did ?

I mean, with no active promotion by the band etc...

i dont think it sold that much? anyways, i dont think people bought the album because it was guns n' roses, they bought it to see what took crazy axl 15 years to put out. it might as well have said "The axl rose show", because everyone knew it was. do you guys think people bought it expecting slash to be present? like i said, anyone who would bother to buy it was probably aware of the situation. the use of the GNR title might have raised the profile, but its not like 'the return of axl rose' would have gone unnoticed. i think the real question is, was anyone mislead into buying the album based on the guns 'n roses name, i might be wrong but i dont think so.

Edited by Turbo Jetts

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i dont think the name really sold albums.

Really ?

Do you think that if CD was another band's debut album, it would have sold 4 to 6 million copies like Guns did ?

I mean, with no active promotion by the band etc...

Maybe. Maybe with that critics would have been made on the music itself, and not on the heavy name it cares.

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Here's my take on the colossal failure of Chinese Democracy, which I wrote about on MYGNR. Maybe you got to read it before it was moved or deleted.

First and foremost, Axl waited too goddamn LONG!!

If he really wanted to make a HUGE impact, the time to strike was 1999. He was on the cover of SPIN magazine, in a fantastic article called "What the world needs now is Axl Rose."

He had been out of the public view for over five years and the music world desperately needed his presence. The Rolling Stone interview gave us the title "Chinese Democracy"....we heard "Oh My God"..."Live Era" promised to close the book on the old chapter of the band....the new band was heard for the first time at the end of "Big Daddy"...

The time to strike was THEN. And he didn't. The album never came out....the new band didn't make it's live debut until years later.

At the 2002 VMAs, he looked like a joke. Silly braided hair, goofy menagerie of musicians, and worst of all....he was out of breath, and wheezed on stage like an old man. I think that was the final straw for the public...the last interest anyone had in him as a musician.

Nobody cared about CD except for us. NOBODY. The world moved on a long time ago. Outside of the handful of people, MAYBE several thousand hardcore GNR fans around the world, (the diehards like us,) nobody cared. It was just too late. The entire industry has changed so much since 1999....things would have been very different had it dropped then. But it didn't.

Axl is still a superstar though. He's a pop culture phenomenon. His exploits still makes the tabloids....people are still fascinated by him as a person, as a celebrity. He makes headlines when he beats photographers in airports. He'll always be a superstar in that respect, but it's not for his "new" music.

Nothing is ever going to have the impact of "Appetite", and the few "greatest hits" from "Lies" and UYI. He's a nostalgia act. I was disgusted by the crowd when I saw them in 2002...in a half empty arena....drunk rednecks catcalling to him that he looks fat. They would stand and sing and cheer during "Sweet Child" and then get more beer during "Madagascar."

I suppose if there ever was a reunion, it'd be big news, in the way that any big reunion would be. And they'd come out and play the same songs from "Appetite" and pepper in "Patience" and "November Rain", and that would be that. That's all the public wants. The public is stupid.

I wish he would stop playing big arenas to people that don't respect him. I wish he would do a small club tour and play ONLY "Chinese Democracy" and NEW songs. But it'll never happen.

So I think the problem was that he simply waited too long and completely lost his relevance. The world turned it's back on Axl Rose a long long time ago. More people care about shit like gaga and bieber than Axl, and that's never gonna change. His time in the sun was maybe 89-93.....nobody ever gets that back! He flushed his future down the toilet when he went into hiding for 15 years.

Despite all this, I still dig him. I think there are about 4 or 5 amazing tracks on CD, and I wouldn't trade my experience witnessing the Tokyo 2009 concert for ANYTHING.

Edited by EstrangedTWAT

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