Popular Post JordanRose 885 Posted March 5 Popular Post Report Share Posted March 5 In June 2016 a user called JustanUrchin popped up on the pussy board and had some really interesting observations around the legalities of the reunion, particularly pointing out that from a legal and business perspective it was Axl crawling back to Slash and Duff to monetise their partnership trademarks and Slash's logos, not the other way around. I've copied some of his posts below. Quote These questions are making me sweat! A prime offering of why Gn’R fans were and are badass. You should’ve been front n’ center at the China Exchange. I’m hesitant to answer—I don’t want a failing grade! But here goes. The legal facts are inescapable. Slash and Duff, as Remaining Original Partners, boxed the singer in from NYD ’96 (when the singer quit Original Gn’R to form his solo “new band” and register a “new p’ship”) until ’14 when he came crawling back to them to seek approval to license his cover/solo band’s Vegas DVD. What Slash n’ Duff fail to disclose in their accounts (and legal pleadings reigning the singer in), is that while the singer lied about the timing of the MOU in which he pirated the trademark, they BOTH failed to bring colorable action before the four-year statute of limitations in California had run. They would’ve had to bring suit in ’96 since the MOU was signed in ’92 (even though Axl indisputably lied in his “open letter” about the timing of when he presented the MOU). Since ’98, however, both Slash and Duff, with clear heads, have been an inseparable rock legally. They controlled Original Gn’R’s sole asset—the back catalogue—while they were winning Grammies, and never wavered to Axl’s solo Gn’R (licensing, merch, synch, and so on). It was a stalemate. Axl controlled the trademark, as Leaving Partner, but failed to capitalize on it to the extent of late-night talk show mockery. What’s a control freak with trademark in tow without the guitarist that made him famous? That’s not rhetorical—what’s the trademark Coca-Cola without the recipe? It likely seems that I’m avoiding your insightful questions, but stick with me. My forte is more identifying and translating legal fact and pleadings to root out myth, revisionism, and contrarianism so that we can all get to a common understanding given the singer’s (and his live-ins) indisputable revisionism and litigiousness. If I offer opinion based upon the legal pleadings and recent, relevant legal facts coupled with my own observations, it’s bound to be unpopular. And right quick. But if there’s ever a time, it’s on the eve of AFD 30 while the negotiation pokers are likely in the fire. Eyes are on this board, after all—the tail wags the dog, particularly in light of the monstrosity, conglomerate LN culling its data and the hypersensitivities of the singer to insight drawn from fact. Here goes: The singer is coasting along, happy as a pig in shit that Slash is carrying/owning the show to the masses in sold-out stadiums world-wide, and is high as a kite on, what appears to me, to be a cocktail of psychotropic meds given his blunted affect at CE and Globo. He capitulated to Remaining Original Gn’R Partners Slash and Duff for a payday assuredly now into the tens of millions, and for peace of mind. He is now adored the world over for simply showing up on time (even though as a result of a coercive division of loss term), lazying out a Barry Gibb falsetto, and flashing a shit-eating grin for the opposite gender (“oh, look how happy this ‘most dangerous’ singer is”). But he’s dumber than a box of rocks, a Jim Jones recruit-type lackey, and is now grandfather age. He has the mind of a child, and his raging live-ins make Elvis’ posse look legit. After being beaten down by Slash and Duff to the point that he couldn’t pay his umpteenth “keyboardist” to infringe upon copyrighted what-have-you German ambient noise, he is the quintessential sellout. LiveNation. LN, and its insurers, run the show. Second only to Slash and Duff’s separate counsel and (professional) management. Forget about the stamped tail of the jet—this is a data culling conglomerate with more subsidiaries than I have hairs on my head. Great that they’ve stifled the singer’s bully live-ins and professionally sell the tour, but it’s “diversity” first. Adler’s fourth replacement looks like more of the world than Adler himself—Adler (God love him) is a super-minority Jew that looks like a “white” Californian. The second what-have-you on “keys” looks like more of the world than the what-have-you before her (some guy with a towel or whatever?) . And, bonus! she’s female. We’ve gotta sell Asia, south of America, and the Mid-East. Not many folks look like Adler in any of those places, as I can attest to, as having travelled to all. Duff Money has been a financial consultant and (successful) writer longer than he was ever recording and performing for Original Gn’R. This multi-millionaire (on investments alone) is so far removed from reality that he is an open socialist bathing in capitalism. Mr. Punk Rock/HR Man sent Adler to the sidelines due to injury. Duff Money, to me, is the disgusting party in this grab. Izzy got out while the getting was good. By offering his equity share (that was gobbled up by S/D/A) he avoided all legal liability and drawing from his capital account resulting from the singer’s assholery and criminal acts while still maintaining his juicy cut of the publishing royalties. Mind you, Remaining Partners Slash and Duff were eating the singer’s “recording” indulgence until 1998 from the singer’s SOLO BAND. And, to my memory, Izzy wasn’t necessarily a tight guitarist live—that’s the kind of shit that matters today, a 50+ year-old guitarist with no known riffs in the rock community who has made a living playing Izzy’s chords better than Izzy and picking in and around Slash as Izzy once did. He’s none too happy, as the record shows. “Stuck in the Middle,” “F.P. Money” with Adler’s first/metal replacement, and the “bullshit” reply to the singer’s, well, bullshit (as Duff Money sat in complicity). Slash is the perpetual busy body—hence the nickname. He, more than anyone else, knows that the singer can no longer bring it (live, anyhow). Despite once being an unprincipled thief and dope fiend, he is rock defined. That motherfucker can raise the dead with his tone alone. But he’s bored as fuck with this S/D/A reunion. This man holds the keys to your new music. He is not going to work up the singer’s shitfest of material that the singer alluded to at the CE—it’s one of the primary reasons he didn’t cowtail on to the singer’s solo band to begin with. The insightful questions, then, come back your way. Sure, recordings are profitable—ask the likes of “Jay-Z.” To say that it just isn’t so is just another form of Axl apologism. Slash will lay down his tracks in days or weeks. But to what? But then there’s Adler. He’s my bellwether. Silence is as silence does. Quote Slash and Duff are "hired employees?" Please source that for us. If you cannot, it may be beneficial to distinguish ownership of the brand (band) name from the business partnership entered into after Steven's firing and Izzy's buyout in '91. Unless you can cite the terms of that partnership agreement or whether those terms have been merged into a new partnership agreement, the default position should be that you (and others) are conflating brand ownership (what you and others appear to believe is a be-all and end-all "power") with the partnership agreement that governs their business entity. Quote You mean equity share, I assume? The original partnership dissolved in ’91 when Izzy sold his equity subsequent to Adler’s firing. A partnership between the other three continued throughout the Axl Rose Touring Band decades. The question is whether that partnership was dissolved in favor of a new PA prior to the threeunion or if the terms of the longstanding PA were modified. In any event, three things are clear: 1. A PA exists, be it new or modified. Recent Exhibit: Opie Skjerseth, July 26, 2016, “all three of them” decided on touring matters. A partnership is a business entity. Staging is enormous overhead. This critical biz decision would not have been made collectively if it weren’t a partnership. 2. GnR is not Axl’s band. The few but vocal Axl Rose Touring Band fans continue to push this myth. Slash and Duff choosing not to continue publishing new music and touring with Axl did not dissolve the partnership. Hence the litigation over licensing, merchandising, and royalties. Axl wrestled the brand (band) name from the other two partners, and controlled new content and band (non)direction once the other two finally made the sensible decision to exit. The result was 15 songs in 25 years and a spot on Wikipedia’s worst albums of all time. 3. Izzy’s replacement is 49 years old and has zero known contributions to the rock music world—not a single riff or solo. Why would Izzy’s replacement be offered an equity share? He has never written/published a riff or solo known to the rock world in 49 years. Izzy’s replacement has sustained himself financially for two decades as a hired hand playing material written by Slash and Izzy while also playing techno rock, pop rock, and “hip hop” with artists like Nsync and Rihanna. If Izzy were in a grave, he’d been turning in it. Quote Slash, Duff, and Adler are adored. This is apparent by comments to GnR social media posts. And it is apparent at each show, but particularly when Slash made a late entrance in Vegas and when the stadiums in Cincy and Nashville erupted as Adler rocked the AFD songs as they should be. Judging by the massive volume of comments about Izzy’s absence on GnR social media posts, he too is adored. It is Axl alone who rightfully faces an uphill public perception battle. He, rather than speaking about the past quarter century of absurdities and failure, needs to simply, “…sing.” How can he possibly explain his “not in this lifetime” and “Slash is a cancer” comments? He cannot. Not honestly. No more than he can explain his album guarantees in the early 2000’s. Or the riots he caused. Or the habitual disrespect to fans and late show times. Or the revolving door of musicians, managers and producers. Or the lies about the RRHOF—he inducts Elton John but disrespects fans by not attending his own induction and instead rants nonsense in a letter about how he doesn’t understand what the RRHOF is. How can he possibly explain spending more than 10 million dollars on an album that took 15 years and is listed as one of Wikipedia’s worst albums of all time? He’ll just rant about the record company and producers and managers. The more Axl Rose speaks, the more I don’t understand him. Axl’s had to eat his words—he proclaimed NITL. Slash and Duff eat no words—they stated time and again that a reunion was possible. Beyond whatever is required of Axl in the partnership agreement or the LiveNation contract, e.g., a nondisclosure clause, one can only hope that his own manager and publicist (if he’s smart enough to have hired one) are counseling him on matters to avoid publicly discussing—or at least coaching him to briefly answer and redirect. Slash and Duff (and Adler for two shows) are eviscerating a quarter century of Axl’s well-deserved negative public image. It’s a virtual guarantee that loss division is incorporated into the partnership agreement to protect Duff and Slash, and certainly a guarantee in the LiveNation contract for no-shows, late start times, or hissy fits that result in cancelled shows. Because of these mechanisms, there is no chance on this tour that Axl will attempt what he’s done the last quarter century—and this is, incidentally, forcing him to repair his public image and respect the fans. By simply showing up (on time, not throwing hissy fits and quitting, you know, all the things expected of any person at any job) and putting effort into his vocals, he is repairing his image—while Slash and Duff do the heavy lifting. Positivity and goodwill are everywhere—including in media reviews of shows. Americans love a comeback story. When Axl speaks, he causes derision and drama and even public riots. This does not sell tickets and merchandise. It does the opposite. And his public negatives are enormous. There is more than a quarter century of documented instances of what happens when he speaks publicly. They’ve promoted and spoken enough since April. So, rather than a “blackout” it’s an “Axl-in” on adult behavior and self-restraint with a heavy helping of loss division motivation. This is really good shit: Quote As of at least 2009, Gn’R was registered as a General Partnership with the California DoS. Slash and Duff were the sole partners. Beyond that perhaps a forum member has retained PDF copies of legal filings prior to settlement, but based upon my cursory research of filed Superior Court docs, this outline, digressions aside, is indisputable: After Izzy was bought out subsequent to Adler’s firing, Axl maneuvered inside the PA by adding terms to a MOU that granted him the brand name if he withdrew or was otherwise removed from the p’ship. Laertes would have approved of said tactics. To the Axl apologists that suffered through a quarter century of 15 original Axl songs and who maintain that the Axl Rose Touring Band was Gn’R, Axl admitted in a 1995 legal notice that he was forming a new band, which left Duff and Slash as the only remaining Gn’R partners. Taken a step further, these same apologists push a myth that Slash, Duff, and Adler are not original members of Gn’R despite those three (along with Izzy and Axl) signing the Geffen recording contract, forming and registering the first Gn’R partnership, and recording the first album. Slash and Duff had sole control of p’ship assets after Axl withdrew from the p’ship in 1996 and proceeded with a solo career using the Gn’R brand name. The Axl apologists continue, as ever, to make baseless assertions that it was Axl’s band. In the mod'd MOU, Slash and Axl had equal decision-making authority. Axl apologists are revisionists: they push the myth that Slash and Duff quit. As legal filings show, when Axl didn’t get his way on more and more Liberace piano pieces and appointing himself dictator, he quit, and with the brand name in tow, undertook a solo career that resulted in 15 songs, the compilation of 14 of which are listed on Wikipedia’s all-time worst albums. To the handful of Axl apologists who push myths about Axl’s artistic purity as a decades-long excuse for Axl’s repeated lies about releasing new music and his rerecording of AFD songs with guys wearing fast food containers on their heads and hometown sycophants, the rerecording of those iconic songs was strictly for financial gain that largely never came to fruition. Because Slash and Duff were the sole remaining partners, Axl rerecorded AFD to receive all profit from licensing minus whatever the pittance he paid the goth and chicken bucket container guys to mangle the music the original members wrote. It is apparent that the movie studios and television ad companies wanted the original, not the Axl knock-off/cover music. This is a roundabout way of stating what should be obvious and should be the forum’s overwhelming response to Axl apologists pushing myths: Slash and Duff legally prevented Axl from hijacking the band and its music, even while they were winning Grammies with VR and Axl was the punchline of late-night talk show jokes. The masses, of course, rejected Axl’s solo band and its music and Axl, though he legally attempted to erase Gn’R’s legacy and make it his own, failed. Slash and Duff are the reason that 3/5 of the band is touring and 4/5 rocked Cincy and Nashville. Izzy’s exclusion makes sense even though I and others—the masses based on the endless comments on GnR FB posts—resent it. Why hasn’t the Slash/Duff/Axl p’ship made him an acceptable offer as they did Adler? Or did they? Given Izzy’s Twitter lyrics and F.P. Money, an offer was made but rejected. Or S/D/A rejected Izzy’s counteroffer. The partners are killing it on merchandising alone. Look at clips of the 2016 shows—the new t-shirts say it all. What was Izzy asking—a slice of the merchandising, a percentage of net ticket sales, or something greater like an equity share? The partners are raking it in touring all songs that Izzy had a hand in, except 3 Axl solo songs each gig that kill the mood and have the fans collectively sitting, so why would Izzy not want a quarter share? The band was over in ’91. Axl had run off untold numbers of loyal fans beginning the summer of ’91 forward. By the time TSI dropped, it hadn’t been GnR for at least two years (three for those who didn’t accept Sorum) and it reflected in TSI sales, but was masked by concert attendance in third world and European countries. 2016 is a AFD-UYI tour, yet Izzy was offered something significantly less than equal profit, hence the Twitter snippets. The new or modified PA holds the answers to the future. But it’s unlikely that the terms will be disclosed, and a biz entity need not disclose those incidental terms to the state DoS. What is the percentage split of touring? Of future publishing? Is decision-making weighted? If so, on biz matters alone or on creative matters as well? Or is this just a p’ship for a specific venture? It’s a virtual guarantee that terms require Axl to adhere to punctual start times, fulfill each date unless due to a force of nature/physical illness, specific division of loss due to any Axl hissy fits (no-shows/walk-offs/late starts), and Axl rehearsing/sound-checking. LiveNation likely demanded similar terms regarding Axl on loss, punctuality, and hissy fit no-shows/walk-offs. Some attribute piano gremlins to “maturity,” the throne to “toughness” and punctual start times to a “changed” man. Really? The first time since ’90 that Axl respects paying fans by performing each show on time is not because he had an epiphany about respect. It is a direct result of coercive PA and promoter terms, including division of loss. Quote “This isn’t, the Guns n’ Roses reunion isn’t just kind of like by happenchance or whatever...chance…or whatever. Um, it was always looked at as a possibility, but it just never seemed right or felt right.” Axl Rose, China Exchange Q&A, June 2016 It is a reunion. Axl understands this. That is why he said it. Slash, Duff and Axl were the sole partners after Izzy’s buyout subsequent to Adler’s firing. Those partners have reunited. The most valuable asset that this p’ship has is its copyrighted ’87-’91 catalogue. Gn’R assets were solely controlled by Slash and Duff after Axl withdrew from the p’ship in 1996, believing, as history shows, that he could force Slash to join Axl’s solo band. And that, he, Axl, could erase the Gn’R legacy and make it his own. He failed. On both fronts. Slash and Duff were, while controlling Gn’R assets as sole partners, winning Grammies with VR as Axl’s solo band devolved into a lounge act. A humorless two decade parody. I summarized this in another thread—from Superior Court legal pleadings, but it bears repeating until the forum stamps out the “Axl’s band” myth: it was never Axl’s band—legally OR in the eyes of the masses. Axl maneuvered inside the mod’d PA by slipping terms into a MOU that should he be removed or voluntarily withdraw from the p’ship, he would be granted the brand name. By design, Axl quit the p’ship after Slash told him, at least publicly via Snakepit, to go Ron Burgundy himself with his dictatorial aspirations. Slash and Axl had equal decision-making authority in the mod’d PA. To the Axl apologists, reread that last sentence. Gilby’s “basically” line bears a striking resemblance to regurgitated misinformation from Axl revisionists on fan forums. If Gilby was approached regarding this threeunion, which at best seems dubious, a precondition to sit at the table would have been agreeing to not disclose any protected or privileged terms of offers or negotiations or be liable for damages. Period. This reconstituted biz entity has already grossed to the tune of more than a hundred million dollars in 2016. Such an undertaking post-voluminous litigation would require each party’s interests being represented individually, not by the likes of a singular, shady Goldstein-like character. The forum shouldn’t be like Gilby—don’t conflate Axl’s retention of the brand name with the reconstituted Gn’R biz entity. Axl’s solo band, R.I.P., 1996-2015. It was Axl’s solo band banking on the Gn’R brand name that brought Axl apologists 15 songs in the same period that millions of children were conceived and reached legal drinking age. And a spot on Wikipedia’s short list of all-time worst albums. Is this a Gn’R reunion? No. Not to me, anyhow. Is it a biz org, legal “reunion?” Yes. Quote Worst concert ever? I’ll raise ya. Of the four times that I’ve paid to see Axl perform (twice in Gn’R and twice in various incarnations of his solo band), he respected his paying fans just once with a punctual performance. That was the first time. And, perhaps coincidentally, that show occurred prior to his paying fans buying him a pot to piss in. The third time he treated me to a riot and gave thousands of us the finger rather than upholding his contractual commitment. Then again, he’s done that the world over, time and again. I received a partial reimbursement from Ticketmaster on two tickets. But no reimbursement for stress of escorting my wife from the arena unharmed, gas, meals, mileage, lodging or, of course, wasted time. While the reconstituted Gn’R biz entity assuredly forced terms on Axl regarding punctual start times or be liable for specific division of loss, hence approximately thirty consecutive punctual (and even early) performances this summer for the first time since AFD, attorneys for Slash and Duff (and LiveNation) have made it an enjoyable experience for all paying fans, band members and crew. AC/DC attorneys have done the same. No show? Walk off? You don’t get paid. And, oh by the way, you’ve accepted sole legal liability for all costs and expenses for incidental and consequential damages resulting from late starts, no shows, walk-offs and all nature of hissy fits. LiveNation would not have accepted the risk otherwise, the insurer(s) would not have insured the summer series, and Slash would've never anted up again. Quote Adler brings the party feel—that slightly behind-the-time bounce and groove—to the sleazy guitars, iconic solos and snarling lyrics. Four Adler replacements later, the drumming fails to replicate his feel. But Adler’s uniquely stylistic groove is not the topic of this thread. His return to the band is. How did this notorious but beloved fiend, 26 years after being fired, retake the Gn’R stage and increase the volume to 11 in already rockin’ American stadiums? Adler has sued (and settled with) the band and has openly and routinely criticized S/D/A, including as late as November 2015. Axl has been adamant that he would never work with Adler again, and even claimed that his drumming was the weak link on AFD. So, what the hell is Adler doing taking over the kit in 2016…and acting like he owns the stage? And why on earth would Axl leap up the riser to Adler in Cincy as if he were shot out of a cannon? Background. Adler forfeited his equity share in the Gn’R p’ship in ‘90, and was subsequently fired when he failed to adhere to the terms of a probationary contract. Izzy, who sold his equity share in ‘91, later acknowledged that replacing Adler with Sorum altered the band’s sound from no frills rock to metal. Said change was, "a big musical difference. Our songs were written with Steve playing the drums and his sense of swing was the push and pull that give the songs their feel. When that was gone, it was just unbelievable, weird. Nothing worked.” Slash listed just three reasons in his autobio for not continuing on with Duff and Axl, one of which was “losing Izzy and Steven, who were such an integral part of the band’s sound and personality [and] without them, the band no longer had its original chemistry.” Cincy, 2016. The already rockin’ stadium erupts when Adler appears. Again in Nashville. And again in L.A. While I couldn’t identify Adler’s second or third replacements in a police line-up and would enjoy it if his fourth replacement went the way of the seven replacement guitarists, what accounts for Adler’s appearances? Let’s list publicly known, biz-related recent facts—almost all of which understandably seem to have been lost in this summer’s excitement. 1. On July 7, 2016, a writer who interviewed Duff the day prior, wrote that the “business kept the band together even when they were apart,” and that “they stayed in touch thanks to their shared interest in merchandise and music royalties.” Duff, moreover, “called the Gn’R reunion a mutual decision.” 2. On July 26, 2016, Opie Skjerseth stated that in regards to S/D/A, “all three of them” decided on touring matters. Staging is enormous overhead. This critical biz decision would not have been made collectively if it weren’t a biz entity with dispersed authority on decision-making. 3. At the Troubadour show, Axl commented that Duff chose the opening songs ordering. That order has not changed throughout the summer. 4. Axl has been punctual in taking the stage this spring/summer with both Gn’R and AC/DC, and has even taken the stage early. Slash’s first of three reasons in his autobio for not continuing on in Gn’R was Axl’s “constant disrespect for all involved by going on late for no good reason night after night after night.” 5. On the LiveNation tour and the AC/DC tour, all start times are standard show times not Axl 10 p.m.-1 a.m. start times. Hell, it’s still been daylight at the start of some shows. 6. Gn’R has been near perfect respecting noise curfew ordinances this summer and has even pushed up start times to avoid fines and overages as well as cutting songs from the set when Kravitz exceeded his time allotment. Why would, at 54, Axl suddenly be concerned with fines and overages unless Slash and Duff’s (and LiveNation) lawyers demanded specific division of loss terms whereby Axl is solely liable for damages, fines, crew overages, etc.? 7. Axl has been rehearsing with both Gn’R and AC/DC. At 54, did Axl suddenly have an epiphany about the importance of rehearsing in not one but two bands or is he being required by two separate biz entities to be a professional and rehearse? 8. In an Eddie Trunk interview less than five months prior to the Troubadour show, Adler openly criticized S/D/A. Axl apologists routinely ripped Adler while declaring that he would n-e-v-e-r take part in the reunion because he had the supposed audacity to speak on the matter. These same types also conflated (and falsely granted Axl) the judicial and agency powers of a gag order with private, contractual NDAs. 9. At the 2016 China Exchange, Axl admitted that Izzy referred to him as the “Ayatollah” and prefaced an answer to a question with “speaking as a dictator.” Slash repeated at least twice in his autobio that Izzy did not tolerate being “dictated to.” 10. At the China Exchange, Axl admitted that he didn’t tell Slash how to play ChiDem songs and, “had no idea how they were going to sound.” Axl has released 15 original songs in 25 years and has been the target of endless public ridicule because of the Howard Hughes circus that produced those 15 songs. What would cause Axl, a notorious control enthusiast, to not even discuss with Slash how he would play his solo band’s only songs and admit that he “had no idea how they were going to sound?” 11. Anyone with functioning ears can hear that Slash and Duff rewrote the intro to “Better” and that Slash gutted the “TIL” solo as recorded. These are two of the three ChiDem staples on the 2016 tour. Imagine if one of Slash’s revolving-door replacements gutted the “SCOM” solo. What accounts for Slash trashing what he doesn’t like on the ChiDem stuff and playing the solos how he pleases? Has he even played the “TIL” solo the same way twice? 12. At the China Exchange, Axl stated that, “and I just, I do want to put out more music with Guns n’ Roses. And I don’t know if that has to do with Slash or not but underneath the Guns n’ Roses thing [brand], and, um, if he and I write something or he wants to play on something that we have, it’s like that would be great.” Slash holds the keys while Axl calls shotgun—Slash determines if and when he’ll create new tunes and whether he wants to work up any prior ideas. Gn’R plus Sorum, interestingly, recorded a song called “Shotgun Blues.” 13. At the China Exchange, Axl stated that, “part of me feels like I’m happy that I didn’t write the things [lyrics] a year ago to something because I feel like what I’m gonna go at now will be stronger.” If the decade-old mythical ‘vault’ of ‘CD2’ songs were going to be released (to a second commercial suicide), why would Axl be “happy” that he didn’t write lyrics because whatever created now will “be stronger?” 14. At the China Exchange, Axl stated that, “This isn’t, the Guns n’ Roses reunion isn’t just kind of like by happenchance or whatever...chance…or whatever.” It is a reunion of the three Gn’R partners, not that we needed Axl to confirm this. This list of known facts retrospectively outlines how the partners reunited after negotiating terms that previously caused Slash and Duff’s (and even Izzy’s) departure from the band. Conclusions. Slash is doing whatever the hell he wants with the solos in the few ChiDem songs they are playing because he is a living guitar legend. Taking the stage with a living guitar legend also apparently works miracles on a singer’s vocal chords. How biz decision-making between S/D/A is assigned, and whether it is weighted and to what percentage it is weighted on biz and creative matters, will likely never be disclosed. But the ample recent evidence, taken as a whole, answers repeated references in other threads: it is Slash, Duff and Axl’s band. As it should be, and as fans demanded. With this leg concluded, will S/D/A revisit the Izzy negotiation and make him an acceptable offer or negotiate a resolution to a presumed counteroffer? Signing a NDA to sit at the table can be circumvented to an extent—like posting pointed lyrical Twitter snippets and rapidly releasing F.P. Money—recorded with the drummer that he says irreparably damaged the sound of Gn’R, so much so that “nothing worked” and the change was “unbelievable, weird.” Money. S/D/A are bathing in it now. Adler has stormed the Gn’R stage three times this summer—and banging hell out of the drums over Axl’s shoulder—because Gn’R is again a biz entity with collective decision-making, weighted or otherwise. Stevie was publicly criticizing S/D/A just months prior to the April shows and now he’s owning the stage? Axl either consented to Slash’s (and/or Duff’s) decision to include Adler or was overruled, but given Axl’s childlike joy bounding up the riser in Cincy, I’d hope the former. And Slash, the epitome of rocker cool, openly grinning while playing with Adler on stage and then hugging him like a brother? It seems that we sometimes can correct life’s mistakes. My goal was to create, in one place, a factual, numbered list on the subject as it stands present-day. It prevents cherry-picking facts, reliance upon now irrelevant facts, and regurgitating false narratives—myths. It’s your turn. Are there other publicly known recent facts that point directly to the structure of the current biz relationship between S/D/A? A biz entity like a GP, LP, or LLP, need only disclose and register general, template-like information but the terms of a PA are often on public display. It is, after all, a biz operating in, and dependent upon, the public realm. Quote Bullshit. You are utterly ignorant about basic American biz orgs. That declaring two Axl personal assistants/social media bullies/live-ins are Slash and Duff’s tour reps/are secondary to Axl’s personal assistants/or whatever the hell you are claiming gives you no pause is unsurprising given your outrageous claims in other posts. Each party’s legal counsel, unlisted, represent their respective parties’ legal interests and structured the legal underpinning of the biz entity. LiveNation is second in importance, or of mutual legal importance regarding the tour itself, if you prefer. That is it. The production manager, though, is key to what fans witnessed live this summer—he’s akin to the general contractor on a construction site and therefore is privy to business decision-making regarding the tour—and thus the entity itself. This talk about a road manager? Road managers are irrelevant to massive productions. And, clearly, there is no qualification other than that of hanger-on status for a quarter century. Why would Slash or Duff care about who is confiscating “where’s Izzy signs,” identifying attractive women for backstage passes, managing “roadies,” and partying with Axl after the shows? Slash and Duff’s legal counsel is not listed. And while Axl may wish to have live-ins represent his legal interests, such matters are largely confined to members of the bar. Given Axl’s litigious nature (some claims which have been tossed at the summary stage) over the past quarter century and the pleadings that I have read, even he understands the importance of legal counsel. Ms. Colabraro is Axl’s accountant. Keeping the numbers inside the “family” is curious. Ms. Santos is agent for service of process for the shell VSB Management, Inc., which is registered with the Cali DoS, and she is apparently ‘baby momma’ to the next character—Mr. Bacha. Mr. Bacha’s qualifications to be Axl’s personal assistant and “assistant manager” at VSB include cleaning “surf wax off the sidewalk” and “selling sunscreen.” The two characters at the top of Axl’s list are live-ins and social media bullies well-known to Axl apologists. Axl’s “A Party” is a who’s who of wholly unqualified reps jostling for position in his personal life, bumping one another, having each other’s babies, living in his residence and catering to him around the world. Not a one of them has any authority relative to Slash or Duff, unless specifically granted by their respective individual legal counsel. Duff’s manager, an A&R liaison and consultant, represents many artistic acts and is actually qualified to manage a performer on tour. And he presumably does not sleep in Duff’s house. Slash’s manager, a long-time representative of artistic acts and cross-product marketer, is actually qualified to manage a performer on tour. And he presumably does not sleep in Slash’s house. Unlike Axl and his homebrewed assistants, it is unlikely Varner and Klein have spent any significant time on the road with Slash and Duff this summer. Professionals such as these, in their present capacities, do not wipe artists’ butts and fetch skirts and spandex shorty-shorts--or rage against AC/DC fans online. Quote The majority of my forty-odd posts target business structure because fans of Gn’R (the band) benefit from shared biz knowledge. It takes from my time to contribute (because the topics are complex and require simplification accompanied by facts and examples), but I benefit because I get to enjoy what others share while suffering less and less myth related to the biz of the band. The biz of Gn’R has been a mess for a quarter century. And that is being generous. Anyone who contests that need only refer to L.A. County Superior Court dockets, including the newest entry this week. That biz rears its (ugly) head in many, many threads. When knowledge spreads, myth-pushers are lidded. I drew unequivocal distinctions in my post, but you ask for more. Here goes: “Crew and Credits” is prima facie but cumulative evidence that this entity is comprised of three individuals with decision-making authority, weighted or otherwise. It lists seven band members, three of which are listed separately. Axl’s “family” affairs are listed, ad nauseam. Duff and Slash have separate management (and security) from each other and from Axl. There are thus four band member employees of the biz entity—Adler’s fourth replacement, Izzy’s whatever the number replacement, and two keyboardists. Most can stop reading here because they have their answer—or who, like me, already had their answer in June. For those remaining, ownership of the brand name is irrelevant to the structure of the entity. As an example, recall the litigation regarding control of p’ship assets—Axl could not, e.g., license songs because Slash and Duff refused. Axl withdrew from the p’ship in ‘96 and, with the brand name in tow, formed a solo band. Slash and Duff, as remaining partners, thus controlled all p’ship assets. Voluminous litigation ensued over control until at least 2009. The C&C answers the question of “who manages” the ‘band,’ but it is cumulative evidence because public 2016 references are to S/D/A decision-making. For example, in Axl’s words, this is a “reunion.” A reunion of the S/D/A p’ship. But keep this in context because there are biz orgs more complex than a GP, e.g., a p’ship for a specific/joint venture. The OP involves the question (as do you) of who is making biz decisions. One or three? But two notes. First, facts are not inflammatory, but persons who intentionally push myths are. Scores of returning Gn’R fans, including me, are interested only in what is next—not in the agenda of Axl apologists who suffered 25 years of 15 original songs. The “bold” text to which you refer was the focal point of my reply. Izzy calls agendas bullshit. So do I. Second, legal counsel for S/D/A negotiated terms. S/D/A managers know the terms—even if Axl’s do not understand them. The production manager, Mr. Skjerseth, is in a unique position because he is, in essence, the general contractor for production—which necessitates that he know who to consult for decisions. Izzy, and counsel, know whether the rejected offer was from an individual with sole decision-making or an entity with joint decision-making. 1. Izzy’s Twitter reply on a RS-verified account employed the terms “they,” “loot” (not proceeds, profit or even money) and “equally.” Counsel, employees, etc. do not “split” profit because they are not in the entity—an entity (or agents) generally pays those performing services in fees, billable hours, expenses and salaries, depending upon the arrangement. Izzy’s “they” therefore could only refer to S/D/A. 2. From Globo regarding decision-making on songs from his prior solo band’s only album, Axl stated: “I really didn't have anything to do with that” and that “they [Slash and Duff] stepped to that on their own.” At China Exchange, Axl stated that he didn’t tell Slash how to play said songs and, “had no idea how they were going to sound.” 3. On July 7, a writer who interviewed Duff, wrote that the “business kept the band together even when they were apart,” and that “they stayed in touch thanks to their shared interest in merchandise and music royalties.” Duff, moreover, “called the Gn’R reunion a mutual decision.” 4. On July 26, Opie Skjerseth stated that in regards to S/D/A, “all three of them” decided on the enormous overhead of staging—this critical biz decision was made collectively. 6. At the CE, Axl stated that, “I do want to put out more music []…[a]nd I don’t know if that has to do with Slash or not but underneath the Guns n’ Roses thing [brand], and, um, if he and I write something or he wants to play on something that we have, it’s like that would be great.” Slash determines if he’ll create new tunes and whether he wants to work up any prior ideas. According to Axl, “that would be great” if Slash chooses to do so. Employees of an entity, conversely, work as directed by their employer. Aside from merch/TM, this entity’s asset is its music and performances, thus biz and creative decision-making authority is indistinguishable. The decision-making is S/D/A, thus S/D are not ‘employees.’ Employees do not make entity biz decisions, be it an employee at a burger franchisee or an employee at the franchisor’s corporate HQ. The replacements and keyboardists likely retain their own managers (someone with more time than I can research this; no one in their right mind would agree to Axl’s “family” managing their careers). Seven band members are listed, but only S/D/A are listed by “Party” with separate and distinct management and security from each other and from the other four listed employee band members. Directly sourced 2016 facts to S/D/A/I/and OS affirm that this 117 MILLION DOLLAR+ tour is not in the hands of Axl and his live-ins and that biz decision-making is collectively S/D/A. And while Axl may have leveraged brand name, brand ownership translated into two decades of an unmitigated commercial collapse. Competent legal counsel for Slash (and Duff) would negotiate from that blue chip: ‘Axl will continue to play American bowling alleys without my client. Now, back to my client’s demands regarding decision-making authority, profit-sharing, and especially division of loss…’ Quote Leverage? Axl is currently a temp employee of ACDC as evidenced by his public interview statements. Axl, meanwhile, has been named as defendant in a pleading filed this week based on the claim that he, in an individual capacity, issued a promissory note on which he failed to satisfy payment. An individual does not issue a promissory note to an employee from a position of strength but rather from financial inability to pay until a future date. Fortunately for Axl, Slash and Duff have agreed to the "reunion" (Axl and Duff have both publicly acknowledged that it is a reunion). By doing that which he said he'd never do (not in this lifetime, anyhow), Axl is sharing in the profit of 117+ million dollars. Without Slash and Duff, Axl will return to playing backyard weddings. He would, though, be able to sell tickets to bowling alleys under the Gn'R brand because he owns the name. At least we think that he retains ownership of the name--that may very well no longer be true as a result of the legal negotiation that precipitated the NITL tour. Ownership of the brand may now very well be joint. Regardless, Axl will have the same leverage he had with the brand name from '96-'15 without Slash and Duff--Vegas residencies and backyard barbecues. The remainder of your post is devoid of (2016) factual support and contradicts all publicly-known facts relevant in 2016 regarding S/D/A decision-making authority. Quote Why does any of this matter? And what does it mean? First, both straight-ahead Gn’R fans and those few, but pouty, fact-denying Axl-apologists have cause to celebrate that Adler is refreshingly honest—he just blurts shit out when asked. He’s the only one of the five who is still rock n’ roll. And, of course, the term of the NDA, if one year, would have exhausted, if signed on January 2, 2016 or thereabouts, thereby releasing Adler to say whatever the fuck he pleases as he, given the content of his interviews, gave the S/D/A money machine the finger after not re-upping as a stand-by employee for another year. Good for him. Say what you will about him changing his life and living with boundless energy, as if that is somehow suspect, but the man has conviction—he did what very few others would: stood by and watched his fourth replacement Elephant Man thud through his songs, swallowed his pride, took the stage and showed everyone that he owned the stage, and after one year decided that money and two songs here ‘n there is a fraud to the fans and himself. I am proud of him. Sincerely. It is also, if I were his counsel/management, a tactic of which I would approve and a crafty negotiating maneuver. It puts the pressure back on S/D/A to trot him out there for ALL his songs. Remember, he was publicly drumming his truth about S/D/A the very month before Duff approached him with the NDA on January 2, 2016. Working backwards, it is Duff who approached Steven with the NDA in January ‘16. Accompanied by his management and/or counsel—“They had me sign a contract thing…” And from a practice perspective, Adler is omitting that said NDA was reviewed by his management and/or counsel. But to a drummer who just wants to rock HIS songs, omitting legal nuances is understandable. It is also Duff who communicated the decision to Adler that he would not have a role in the Troubadour shows. This is direct evidence that S/D/A p’ship has collective decision-making authority regarding the biz of the entity, weighted or otherwise. But we already knew that, as I wrote about last spring/summer, after the Opie interview (“All three of them…”). The only caveat that I would add, from experience, is that Duff likely has a clause or term in the PA granting him, or assigning to him, the authority or duty to communicate collective business decisions to employees or potential employees. Sort of the HR guy, if you will. We likewise know from the “China Exchange” interview other legally significant facts. For those who want a basis as to what to expect from this business in the near-future, Axl provided a boat-load of info on the creative decision-making of the renegotiated S/D/A p’ship in that interview—ceding to Slash and Duff, but particularly Slash. Search those threads for a summary as I have no inclination to summarize here. And, of course, we know that Axl alone has assumed specific division of loss resulting from his quarter century of disrespect towards fans and general assholery the moment we fans put a dollar in his pocket back in ‘87: not a single no show, notable late start, walk-off or pussy-tantrum at all this (or the AC/DC) tour. The guy had no epiphany about respect—LiveNation (and its insurers) as well as Slash and Duff’s competent counsel (and AC/DC’s), demanded adult-like, professional behavior of him. Nothing gets a guy out on stage and his mouth shut on-stage knowing that Slash and Duff walk out of each venue with heavy pockets while he is absorbing and accountable for any losses incurred as a result of his assholery. Only specific division of loss forces Axl to comply with what rock n’ roll is for everyone else. What a guy. If Izzy were to more directly bring the pressure, as Adler has, rather than just telling the minority of fans that S/D/A are a money machine and that Axl is crazy as ever and can’t manage his own life by singing a cover of a song (“Stuck in the Middle with You”) or putting out a song about the money machine (what was it, “F.P. Money?”), then us old-head fans may see something next summer. Izzy did tweet “Bullshit” to Axl and Duff’s, well, bullshit after their come-out interview with some third-world wanna hump-hump news outlet last fall. But, again, that is still indirect. Quote On the eve of what would appear to be exciting news for Gn’R fans (Izzy and Adler, and perhaps one or more new tunes?)—news that may bring me (and many others) back into the fold—it seems time to dust off legal facts. The o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l Guns n’ Roses is the five individuals who signed a recording contract with Geffen, registered their biz entity as a general p’ship with the California DOS, trademarked the brand (band), and wrote, recorded and copyrighted the first Gn’R album. There is thus no other o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l Gn’R than Slash, Duff, Izzy, Adler and Axl. This is legal fact. Any other assertion is a legal impossibility, and thus, false. Anyone who attempts to claim otherwise (while seeking pecuniary benefit) would first receive a cease-and-desist letter, and if said party/ies continued to infringe upon copyrighted or trademarked images or sounds or claims of being “original” to the band, said party/ies would be sued. Ask yourself, then, who—what entity—can enforce and protect the rights of Gn’R copyrighted and trademarked material? Further, ask yourself why Axl could n-e-v-e-r license this biz entity’s product—its images, marks and sounds (in other words, said images, marks and sounds owned by the S/D/A p’ship that had been created by the S/D/I/A/A p’ship)? Subsequent to Adler being fired, S/D/A purchased Izzy’s equity share/capital account (with their individual cash) when Izzy withdrew from the p’ship in ‘91, and thereafter formed a new p’ship—the S/D/A p’ship. During this period, however, Axl, legally secured the exclusive right to the brand name—Guns n’ Roses. Soapy Smith would’ve been proud of such maneuvering—albeit Mr. Smith swindled presumably sober individuals. With brand name in tow, Axl ventured to continue his raging dictatorial delusions, and “employ” both Slash and Duff in Axl’s solo band. Said solo band, and Axl in his individual capacity, had sole legal right to the use (historical misuse) of the brand name moving forward. Slash said, in legal effect, “fuck off” in ’96 and Duff said, in legal effect, “fuck off” in ’97. ----------------------------- The legal and end results? The legal result was that Axl retained a brand name for two decades by which he apparently supported himself, his live-ins, and work-for-hire musicians during those two decades by touring under said brand name while performing S/D/A p’ship tunes. To some degree, anyhow. One of his former employees, a keyboardist, sued him for failing to pay him for work performed. Axl attempted to use or license p’ship material during that time, and was met with S/D litigation, which resulted, in part, in Axl “re-recording” AFD. As ridiculous (and desperate) as that may seem to “re-record” an iconic album, he could not legally/financially benefit/control that material unless he did so (while paying the p’ship/copyrighted artists). Axl also released 15 songs in 25 years with his solo band, 14 of which landed on Wikipedia’s worst-ever albums. Over those two decades, Slash and Duff controlled whether and when and for what price (2/3 vote majority vote) any S/D/A asset would be licensed or otherwise used (the original/lucrative Gn’R assets—licensing, merchandising, etc.). Slash and Duff (and Izzy and even Adler), meanwhile, pumped out new tune after new tune during those two decades. Slash and Duff (and Sorum) also won Grammies. The question then becomes, beyond the arguably unparalleled embarrassment and train wreck that Axl was for a quarter-century in which he hired and fired musicians, managers and promoters like one would expect of Mao, and blew through outrageous recording advances like Monopoly money as the standby butt of late-night talk show and peer musician mockery—when has Axl controlled ANYTHING other than the brand name and his employees in his two-decade solo band, its music (or lack thereof), and touring of said solo band? Stated differently, Axl doesn’t control shit. He never did. It’s myth propagated by Axl apologists. Myth and near-delusional horseshit that is crushed by legal fact. Axl legally owned, at least until January 1, 2016, the brand name. Any and all legally relevant fact since that time support an amended, modified or new S/D/A p’ship agreement. While I have neither the time nor inclination to recite it, you may, if so inclined, search my prior posts as they are few and all relevant to the topic are supported and sourced by legally relevant, current fact. Axl has always been legally controlled, after Izzy’s w/drawl from the p’ship, by Slash and Duff. Axl is further controlled, and marginalized, since January 1, 2016. By what? A quarter-of-a-billion-dollar grossing biz entity (and growing) being administered and controlled by Live Nation, a conglomerate with many subsidiaries (including the publishing house Roc Nation—promoting new Gn’R music?), Slash’s separate management (and counsel), Duff’s separate management (and counsel), and Axl’s separate live-in management and familial accounting. Again, refer to my sparse prior posts for supporting and sourced fact. Axl is, moreover, controlled by specific division of loss terms, assuredly forced upon him by S/D’s counsel AND Live Nation. This controls not only his behavior on-stage (zero diva hissy-fits and zero criminal behavior like inciting riots) but his timeliness and legally FORCED respect for paying consumers of the S/D/A product—ticketing for live performances and a beastly killing on merchandising, and licensing, e.g., NASCAR). While maynard, Sunset Gardner, Free Bird, todreamofwolves, and the dude/dudette with the string of numbers name are mowing down the Axl apologist propaganda, an additional hand never hurts. Apologies in advance if I’m missing any others stating legally relevant facts as I‘ve scrolled through just the last few pages. And yes, feel free to cut and paste anything from this post above the ------------ as it is legal fact, and because I rarely post on Gn’R boards but am routinely asked in PM’s if copying from my posts is cool. Hell, yeah! Rock the fuck on. Axl apologist propaganda bullshit has no place on these boards post-January 1, 2016, if it ever did. Regarding Izzy’s whatever-the-number replacement, who apparently was the subject of this thread, this guy is in his 50’s and has zero known riffs. I repeat. The guy is in his 50’s, is a guitarist, and no one knows him from a can of paint. The guy feeds his family by playing Izzy’s chords and attempting to look like Izzy. Hell, even Adler mistook him for Izzy from a distance. He has, though, recorded and/or toured with Rihanna and NSYNC. Izzy would be rolling in his grave, if he were in one, like the rest of us Gn’R fans who saw the o-r-g-i-n-a-l band. Then again, Izzy is ready, willing and able. But S/D/A are bathing in ticketing and merchandising to the tune of a quarter of a billion before we get into NASCAR licensing and so forth, and (perhaps until tomorrow), refuse to split the loot with Izzy as they tour on the backs of songs that he co-wrote. Quote The randomness of, and interesting stories from old time fans in, this thread motivates me to contribute a few of my own random stories: 1. Adler's fourth replacement sent me a friend request on FB last July. I never accepted, and he later withdrew the request. (It's not as inexplicable as it seems, but too much backstory to convey pecking away on a mobile). 2. The second time that I saw Gn'R (in June '91), I had the distinct sense that this was the end of the band. The band made the fans wait in the sweltering heat (this was before it later became public fact that this was a pattern of disrespect by the band's singer). The singer sounded terrible. Fans were throwing all sorts of shit at the band (most of it was hitting other fans). Izzy basically stood in place most of the show as if he had concrete blocks on his feet. I couldn't make sense of the songs--Adler's first replacement was a metal drummer--the songs now had the feel of a english metal band. But my clearest memory, despite being latched onto the barricade at Slash's feet, Slash talking to me and my friends, Slash wearing my friend's OU hat across the stage before tossing it into the crowd, and the singer shaking (literally) my hand, was that there was a KEYBOARDIST on stage. I shit you not. A keyboard/synthesizer was on a Gn'R stage. Everyone, and I mean all other 8 guys I went with, could not believe there was some guy with a keyboard on stage. The only word that fits is betrayal (at the time, though, it was just the repeated use of combinations of "fuck" and "hate" between the 9 of us, and scores more in the parking lot after the show). Gn'R was everything that Bon Jovi, Stryper, Van Halen and the like were not. Or so we'd thought. Beyond that, NO ONE could figure out wtf (yes, people said "what the fuck" as a proper way to introduce a question back then) the guy with the keys was DOING during the songs--was he even playing? Given these facts (and atmosphere), and if it was anywhere near as hot a month or so later in St. Louis, the singer should count his Lucky Charms none of the paying customers beat his scrawny ass when he threw a hissy fit and walked off stage. 3. Despite this, I stood outside the record store that fall for the release of UYI at midnight. I had faith, even if many of my friends no longer did (and the music scene was shifting). When I finally had my turn at the counter, the mom n' pop record store had cassettes, but I had a deck in my car. It was for the best, in retrospect. I gave both tapes a glorious go for a solid two weeks, and haven't played anything from UYI since. By the time the singer's Liberace piano piece (with said singer in spandex shorty-shorts, a heavy dose of horns, gospel singers, Duff looking like a corpse, and some Izzy look-a-like playing Izzy parts) hit MTV, I was already pretending that I didn't own UYI. This is when, apparently, Gn'R found glory south of America and in Europe even as it simultaneously became irrelevant in America for the next quarter century. 4. I agree with Slash, Duff and Adler's statements years later: the band was no longer a band by '90. But I didn't know it until June 6, 1991. For a moment, last July, it was but one piece away. Here's to the final fifth this July! Quote Posters’ revisionism about the singer's voice appear to originate from the vacuous who never saw the original band, yet rave about how he sounded live post-’91 when that’s chainsaw hoarseness. And it’s revisionism—he didn’t sound that way on AFD (thank God). The singer was always the weakest link live. When I saw the band in ’88, his vocals sounded close enough to the recordings. But by the second time I saw the band in ’91 (before UYI), he sounded awful—screaming hoarseness. At that time, however, he had a genuine rock stage presence (this was before his two-decade assholery of fan disrespect and corresponding free-fall into irrelevance in America) to compensate. Adler’s fourth replacement has all the feel of Elephant Man on the kit and bludgeons through iconic songs like PC as if he were hitting the crack stem in the sleeper of his rig searching for his skull cap. It’s no wonder the singer has to resort to a Barry Gibb falsetto to squeak out the lyrics to PC at the meth-like tempo Adler’s fourth replacement lays down. The singer is no one-take, Elvis natural—he recorded his vocals line-by-line on the iconic AFD. And he is now grandfather age. And yet, his vocals on OTGM with Adler last summer sounded closer to the recording than the second time that I saw the band in ’91. Not bad at all, for an old man who recorded the vocals three decades ago line-by-line. Quote The Axl apologist training course, in summation: Step 1, chant the following about the two decades of Axl’s solo band: Grammies don’t mean shit. Album sales don’t mean shit. YT views don’t mean shit. Fifteen original songs in 26 years, the collection of 14 which crawled onto Wikipedia’s short-list of worst all-time albums, doesn’t mean shit. Axl playing AFD-UYI covers at backyard bbq’s and bowling alleys with a busload of revolving-door cover "artists" doesn’t mean shit. Step 2, conflate Axl urinal-sniffing with legal fact: Urinal-sniffing 1: Axl’s 15 original songs in 26 years “is Gn’R.” Legal fact 1: Axl withdrew from the Gn’R General Partnership on NYE ’95 after providing legal notice the summer prior. Two biz entities d/b/a Gn’R existed after that date. One, which is Original Gn’R as referred (correctly) to in legal pleadings, and the other, which is Axl’s Gn’R as referred (correctly) to in legal pleadings. Slash and Duff, as Remaining Partners, were Original Gn’R after said date and, as such, thereafter controlled Original Gn’R p’ship assets—AFD through UYI—licensing, merchandising, etc. Axl, as principal, controlled Axl’s Gn’R post-NYE 1995, and thereafter whatever he released into the marketplace that was a product of his solo band. Urinal-sniffing 2: Axl’s 15 original songs in 26 years “is Gn’R because that’s the mark on the album cover.” Legal fact 2: S/D/A executed a MOU in ‘92, which included an amendment that Axl would retain the exclusive right to the mark “Guns n’ Roses” if he withdrew from the p’ship. Axl could, legally then, use the mark Gn’R for any venture thereafter—be it a pastry sole proprietorship or an incorporated cattle ranch or anything in between. Slash and Duff, legally then, could not use the mark Gn’R under which to perform if Axl withdrew or was terminated. Three years to the day of the executed MOU, Axl provided legal notice that he was withdrawing from Original Gn’R and, given that he would retain exclusive right to the use of the mark, he gave Slash and Duff notice that he, Axl, intended to use the mark “in connection with a new group that I will form.” Urinal-sniffing 3: S/DM/IS/SA/AR are “not original Gn’R.” Legal fact 3: The o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l Gn’R is the five individuals who signed a recording contract with Geffen, formed a General Partnership, registered said p’ship with the Cali DoS, and registered the marks and (copy) rights. Said o-r-i-g-i-n-a-l legal partners recorded and toured the #1 debut selling album of ALL-TIME. No other natural person can claim (for pecuniary gain) to be original unless he or she cares to reply to a cease-and-desist letter and defend against subsequent injunctive relief and damages litigation. There can be no revisionism of original Gn’R. It is legal fact. Unrelated urinal-sniffing (but propagandized by Axl revisionists to appear related): references to a post-NYD ’96 RECORDING agreement further corroborates the above legal fact while conflating basic legal principles. Axl, with brand name in tow, formed Axl’s Gn’R in ’96 and, in May ’98, both Slash and Duff executed amendments to the ’92 RECORDING agreement to prevent Axl from drawing from their royalty (not capital) accounts to finance his solo band’s ‘recording,’ said solo recording which ultimately was released a decade later. While in control of Original Gn’R, S/D became leaving MEMBERS of the RECORDING agreement while Axl was a terminated PARTNER of Original Gn’R. Based upon averments that were not specifically denied and thus deemed admitted, it is indisputable that Axl quit Original Gn’R for control: the control of the mark, and employer control of any natural person in his post-NYD ’96 solo band. History shows what Axl did with control of the mark “Guns n’ Roses,” and, ultimately, capitulating after two decades to Original Gn’R Remaining Partners Slash and Duff to license, synch and merchandise Original Gn’R. Forgetting the killing S/D/A are raking on merchandising and licensing for NASCAR and the like, ticketing alone has grossed more than a quarter of a billion dollars, Axl capitulated legally (and he capitulated in the practical sense—he admitted in the D/A south of America interview last fall that he requested Slash’s number). Not in This Lifetime. Indeed. Did Axl capitulate to remaining Original Gn’R partners Slash and Duff for you, the Axl apologist? For the joy of performing 30 year-old songs that were the subject of voluminous litigation with Slash and Duff? For the burning desire to create new music with Slash and Duff and to release it to you, the Axl apologist? To release solo tunes from a mythical "vault," when 14 of the BEST 15 of those best mid-temp piano yawners landed on Wikipedia's worst all-time albums and he had to resort to covering Gn'R at backyard bbq's and weddings to pay his live-ins and employees (to some extent, anyhow, not including one of his "keyboardists")? For other reason(s)? There sure is a fuckload of money in gate, merchandising and licensing/synch by capitulating to the Remaining Partners and performing to seas of buyers/customers in packed stadiums across the world, many of whom are sporting fresh Gn’R shirts and venue-specific trinkets. ---------- To everyone else who just wants to rock TFO to celebrate the #1 debut selling album of ALL-TIME next month with all FIVE ready, willing and able original partners: Adler’s flurry of activity after the presumptive one-year K/NDA expired January 2017 was an extension of his prior (successful) pressure/negotiation-tactics in late 2015 (months later he had his ass on kit to perform ALL AFD songs until his injury). Then he fell silent in March 2017, but in typical Adler fashion threw in a nugget of repetitive fact (this is the guy who has beaten down S/D/A/I in legal proceedings): “I don't have nothing else to say about it. I'm really sorry. That's all I can tell you. There's nothing to say. I literally, literally honest to god literally, I can't even tell you why I can't tell you anymore. Literally, okay? I really can't. I just can't." Adler should be pissing up the S/D/A tree as he was in late 2015 just before he fell silent. Yet is not. A NDA would not reach his thoughts/opinions forward or past-looking, only his time under the K/NDA in 2016. He should be out-and-about precisely now, but is not. It’s your call. Adler is my bellwether. He’ll be returning. But at the “Apollo?” Axl/LN must pretend that Axl is “super-diverse” given OIAM. We have the D/A south of America interview last fall re Izzy, and Izzy’s “bullshit” reply, Izzy’s F.P. Money and, before that, Izzy’s “Stuck in the Middle with You.” We’ve got the conglomerate LN running the show, leasing the marked LN jet, and a massive-grossing world-wide tour. Not good for AFD 30. But we’ve got Adler’s newfound silence. It’s a push. Does the greed of S/D/A (gate, licensing, merch, synch) and LN (“diverse, big tent”) prevail over renegotiating with Izzy and having Adler on the kit for all HIS songs? I sniff the stench of greed and politics of a one-off or brief series given the scheduled spate of American shows in the can. But surely so, too, does LN, Slash’s separate counsel and management and Duff’s separate counsel and management. And maybe even Axl’s live-ins are vaguely aware of the extra dollars that they could eye in Axl’s pocket. LN has data culling and analytics at its disposal on social media posts. There is a balloon of mentions/likes/reposts each time Adler appeared and a spike when there’s been any indication of a full FIVE reunion. In the end, the greed of S/D/A and LN may be to our—the AFD fans’—good. Perverse, right? Quote To a certainty, the future does not hold any conceivable iteration of the patently absurd Axl apologist myth advanced—or naively reproduced—in the above quote. Forget the sourcing of this myth, which is traceable to an Axl apologist forum for the few (whose proprietor has gone silent in the months since the S/D/A p’ship reunion, or so I’m informed)—it’s demonstrably and legally false. The core of this myth is that the Remaining Partners of Original Gn’R, Slash and Duff, who have controlled the back catalogue—merchandising, branding, synch, licensing, etc. since NYD ’96 when the singer quit Original Gn’R to form his solo band, Axl’s Gn’R (a “new band,” by registering “a new p’ship which was only an effort to salvage Guns n’ Roses not steal it,” as quoted from the singer’s legal notice to S/D and his ‘open letter’), have signed a ‘two-year work-for-hire’ contract. Yes, you read that right: this legal myth is that the two Remaining Partners of Original Gn’R who control the back catalogue signed a two-year work-for-hire contract with Axl’s solo band. Only in the land of Axl urinal-sniffers could anyone utter such a declaration with a straight face. Backing up. There are myriad of contracts with any biz org, including this entity. This biz org has counsel, management, recording, distribution, publishing, order-of-rights, promoter, and on and on (and on) contracts. Slash has his own counsel and management. Duff has his own and separate counsel and management. The singer has his live-ins. Said live-ins manage Adler’s fourth replacement, the Izzy look-a-like and the two what-have-yous on “keys.” (See “Crew and Credits” from NITL for citation). The conglomerate promoter, LiveNation (and its insurers), run the show, and professionally so. Specific division of loss (from S/D) and assuredly LN’s insurers have the singer’s ass out on stage in broad daylight and treating customers/buyers with respect, if you need a concrete example. Reinforcing the legality and this biz org’s structure, there’s a mountain of indisputable and publicly known fact to further refute this myth. Opie Skjerseth, July 26, 2016: in regards to S/D/A, “all three of them” decided on the enormous overhead of staging—this critical biz decision was made collectively. On July 7, 2016, a writer who interviewed Duff, wrote that the “business kept the band together even when they were apart,” and that “they stayed in touch thanks to their shared interest in merchandise and music royalties.” Duff, moreover, “called the Gn’R reunion a mutual decision.” From Globo regarding decision-making on songs from his prior solo band’s only album, thes singer stated: “I really didn't have anything to do with that” and that “they [Slash and Duff] stepped to that on their own.” At China Exchange, Axl stated that he didn’t tell Slash how to play said songs and, “had no idea how they were going to sound.” At the CE, Axl stated that, “I do want to put out more music []…[a]nd I don’t know if that has to do with Slash or not but underneath the Guns n’ Roses thing [brand], and, um, if he and I write something or he wants to play on something that we have, it’s like that would be great.” Slash determines if he’ll create new tunes and whether he wants to work up any prior ideas. According to Axl, “that would be great” if Slash chooses to do so. Employees of an entity, conversely, work as directed by their employer. The singer crawled back to Remaining Original Gn’R Partners in 2014 to license his solo band’s DVD. The singer propositioned Slash in 2015 and sought Slash’s number. The singer is touring 30 year-old songs to the tune of a quarter of a billion (gross) ticketing biz as a consequence. -------- There are eyes on this forum. Hi, Izzy! You were badass in ’88 when I saw you, but not so much in ’91 in Hershey. Can’t blame ya, though. That disaster set sail the following month in St. Louis. I’da done the same as you in November ’91—selling your equity share and relieving yourself from liability and draws from your capital account for the singer’s voluminous litigation and criminal charges due to his assholery and fan disrespect! You were proven right for 25 years, until this quarter of a billion grossing monstrosity touring your songs reconvened last year. Gotta say, though, you need to be a bit more direct than “Stuck in the Middle,” “F.P. Money,” and your “bullshit” tweet. Despite Adler prevailing over you (and the other 3) in ’91, he’s been more successful being direct, no? Get to the table, with effective represent’n, if you haven’t already. I hear it’s AFD 30 next month, for chrissakes! I'll cut ya a deal, if you can't find anyone effective. After all, I was in a fistfight with a Crue fan back in the day in they gym for calling you 'greezy." Hey, to the gal on the Axl revisionist forum that plagiarizes me and to the web ‘journalist’ who peddles her plagiarism of me! The pleadings and legal fact are of public record. Do your own research and craft it into a readable/understandable post for all education levels to consume rather than plagiarizing me as to what is “legally significant.” Hi, to the muzzled live-ins managing the singer! LiveNation sure has put the kibosh to you. A shame, huh? But keep an eye on the target—the singer’s back pocket. It’s growing by the day. Even Elvis’ posse would be jealous! To the rest of you regular fuckers who just want to rock TFO to AFD 30, just like me, keep up the good fight beating back the myth-pushers and clamping down on the unabashed greed of S/D/A. Gn’R fans are badass! They always were! Quote Nine months or so from last I checked-in, and the S/D/A p'ship continues to have less going on than Anthony Weiner. Notwithstanding gate, synch, merch and licensing of thirty year-old tunes and marks, that is. None of which this biz entity (post-'91 Izzy capital account buyout) wanted to cut-in the chief songwriter on or the dude who brought the party feel to those songs (save for a few shows in '16). Glorious Tweets, though, from the xenophopbic, litigious racist. One wonders if his live-ins jumped the border or are aliens with legal status. While these Tweets are barely comprehensible, much like any thought he expresses verbally or in writing, one suspects that his xenophobia does not extend to his live-ins and that he fears that ICE may break down his door to deport his live-ins. In any event, those seeking badass, relevant and current rock need look no further than Octane on Sirius/XM. And, incidentally, Slash and his band dropped kickass rock every two years (until 2016) that Octane featured. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sydney fan 283 Posted March 5 Report Share Posted March 5 Excellent thread. I hope for the day ICE break down Axls malibu mansion door and deport all of Axls live ins. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Brasky 16,328 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Throw Transport down the well Quote Link to post Share on other sites
underdog 325 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Cliffnotes or bulletpoints plz Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tremolo 1,235 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Not gonna read all of that. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
RedHook 7,943 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Good to see Fat Boy is miserable. All boxed in legally with only his immigrant family on his side Quote Link to post Share on other sites
GnRLiars 4,538 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Incredible Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Damn_Smooth 12,130 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 If I cared I'd point out how I don't give a shit what some nerd with walls of text had to say. Only if I cared though. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
bacardimayne 24,763 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Popular Post JordanRose 885 Posted March 6 Author Popular Post Report Share Posted March 6 4 hours ago, underdog said: Cliffnotes or bulletpoints plz His main point is to demolish the Axl apologists' narrative that the reunion proved that Axl "won" and that Slash and Duff went crawling back to him for a payday and to be dicated-to "hired employees" whilst Axl's own words in the China and Duff interviews contradict that. The legalities show the truth is very much the other way around in Axl having no choice left but crawl to them. There's a lot of repetition but if you enjoy learning and reading about what an absolute cuck failure Axl is in every area of his professional life it's a very entertaining and informative >1-hour read. For those that don't have the attention span despite coming here daily to tug their balls whilst bashing the fat cunt, it's your loss. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
JordanRose 885 Posted March 6 Author Report Share Posted March 6 *double post Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Turkish 645 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Having read all that I think it’ll be a near darn miracle if this shit band ever releases another fuckin note of music. It’s all about pension funds now guys and touring is where it’s at Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sydney fan 283 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 I had to laugh about axl enjoying being a grandad. Pity its not his kids. Steph just couldnt bare rubbing axls balls in a limo. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sydney fan 283 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 3 hours ago, JordanRose said: His main point is to demolish the Axl apologists' narrative that the reunion proved that Axl "won" and that Slash and Duff went crawling back to him for a payday and to be dicated-to "hired employees" whilst Axl's own words in the China and Duff interviews contradict that. The legalities show the truth is very much the other way around in Axl having no choice left but crawl to them. There's a lot of repetition but if you enjoy learning and reading about what an absolute cuck failure Axl is in every area of his professional life it's a very entertaining and informative >1-hour read. For those that don't have the attention span despite coming here daily to tug their balls whilst bashing the fat cunt, it's your loss. 06 i feel with buckethead on board was axls sliding door moment. If he changed the whole thing to an axl solo name we would have had 2 albums potentially 3 released. But the record company were not interested without having a reunion of some sort. But would it eventually gone to shit and eventually be where we are?. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Faxl Rows 1,407 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 Fucking fascinating, thanks for posting. Wonder what the guy thinks of Axl's later vocal performances. I guess legally he can't be stopped from coasting each show. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sydney fan 283 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 To a casual fan they would think " shit axl and slash made up, there besties high fives " and all that shit. I cant beleive this is all on contracts and so much legal shit, it puts fatboy in a corner. As much as muff is a cuck, him and slash and live nation are the dealers and fatboy playing the dealers hand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Brasky 16,328 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 52 minutes ago, Sydney fan said: To a casual fan they would think " shit axl and slash made up, there besties high fives " and all that shit. I cant beleive this is all on contracts and so much legal shit, it puts fatboy in a corner. As much as muff is a cuck, him and slash and live nation are the dealers and fatboy playing the dealers hand. Lol Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Brasky 16,328 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 8 hours ago, RedHook said: Good to see Fat Boy is miserable. All boxed in legally with only his immigrant family on his side Lol fake news Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Brasky 16,328 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 4 hours ago, JordanRose said: His main point is to demolish the Axl apologists' narrative that the reunion proved that Axl "won" and that Slash and Duff went crawling back to him for a payday and to be dicated-to "hired employees" whilst Axl's own words in the China and Duff interviews contradict that. The legalities show the truth is very much the other way around in Axl having no choice left but crawl to them. There's a lot of repetition but if you enjoy learning and reading about what an absolute cuck failure Axl is in every area of his professional life it's a very entertaining and informative >1-hour read. For those that don't have the attention span despite coming here daily to tug their balls whilst bashing the fat cunt, it's your loss. Axl won. Duff and Slash won by making millions as employees. It's hilarious how ones interpretation could cause such nonsense. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sydney fan 283 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 12 minutes ago, Bill Brasky said: Lol But how sir brasky?. How can slash and duff be employees if they are still part of the original partnership?. I beleive slash and duff are making more than axl on any given tour nite? Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Brasky 16,328 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 3 minutes ago, Sydney fan said: But how sir brasky?. How can slash and duff be employees if they are still part of the original partnership?. I beleive slash and duff are making more than axl on any given tour nite? Orginal partnership hasn't meant shit since 97. They are contracted employees with negotiated percentages of profits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Sydney fan 283 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 5 minutes ago, Bill Brasky said: Orginal partnership hasn't meant shit since 97. They are contracted employees with negotiated percentages of profits. So how does that work for a new album in terms of publishing etc for new written songs or even just pasting instrumentals on lyrics?. AFD was 30 (axl)/25(slash)/20(duff)/10(steven) im wondering how this all works for a new album....... Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Tremolo 1,235 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 5 hours ago, JordanRose said: His main point is to demolish the Axl apologists' narrative that the reunion proved that Axl "won" and that Slash and Duff went crawling back to him for a payday and to be dicated-to "hired employees" whilst Axl's own words in the China and Duff interviews contradict that. The legalities show the truth is very much the other way around in Axl having no choice left but crawl to them. There's a lot of repetition but if you enjoy learning and reading about what an absolute cuck failure Axl is in every area of his professional life it's a very entertaining and informative >1-hour read. For those that don't have the attention span despite coming here daily to tug their balls whilst bashing the fat cunt, it's your loss. It’s nobody’s loss. Nobody’s life will be affected positively after reading about it. Axl is lazy, Slash is a hypocrite, and Duff is a money-grubbing whore, and as a whole they have nothing to offer. That’s all we need to know. Also, who gives a fuck about partnerships and all that legal bullshit? Some people invest too much of themselves into this joke of a band. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
Bill Brasky 16,328 Posted March 6 Report Share Posted March 6 1 minute ago, Sydney fan said: So how does that work for a new album in terms of publishing etc for new written songs or even just pasting instrumentals on lyrics?. AFD was 30 (axl)/25(slash)/20(duff)/10(steven) im wondering how this all works for a new album....... Anyone who claims to know exactly is most likely full of shit. But Axl rose is in charge and owner of the GNR brand. Quote Link to post Share on other sites
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