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Duff interview

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4 minutes ago, wasted said:

In the Third person version the verses are The Racist, the chorus is the moral majority calling him out. Two characters but the he said she said generic narrator is hidden because it’s a rock n roll song. It’s more like dialogue in a movie than two shifting perspectives. 

 

But another theory is it’s actually a first person self portrait. As in it’s okder Axl calling out younger Axl in the context of a past that doesn’t like either version. 

Both plausible. I think we're almost on the same page.

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3 minutes ago, magisme said:

Both plausible. I think we're almost on the same page.

I think it’s the contrived nature or the manipulation of the characters and music direction which makes the first person nrration too simple for a song like this. It feels like the relation between voices/characters is set to music. It’s a fine distinction probably not worth exploring. First person leads more towards the chorus being a reinforcement of the verses. Like Axl said we are all just one in a million, why are you hassling me? The third person version calls that character out more directly in the chorus. 

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http://www.loudersound.com/news/duff-mckagan-we-wanted-izzy-to-be-part-of-guns-n-roses-reunion

 

This is EXACTLY what I said and had been told last year : Izzy was unprepared and Richard was an absolute beast on guitar during the rehearsals.

Fortus set the bar way, way too high for Izzy for the NITLT Tour and the choice to keep Fortus was just obvious.

 

Forget about Izzy, Richard Fortus just put the band in another dimension.

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8 minutes ago, caraibes said:

http://www.loudersound.com/news/duff-mckagan-we-wanted-izzy-to-be-part-of-guns-n-roses-reunion

 

This is EXACTLY what I said and had been told last year : Izzy was unprepared and Richard was an absolute beast on guitar during the rehearsals.

Fortus set the bar way, way too high for Izzy for the NITLT Tour and the choice to keep Fortus was just obvious.

 

Forget about Izzy, Richard Fortus just put the band in another dimension.

Everyone should give it a quick read and see that it says nothing like what carebear is trying to take credit for.

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What Duff really says: We wanted Izzy, but he never came to a rehearsal. Fortus is damn good though, so it's fine that it's still him.

 

Why didn't Izzy ever go to a rehearsal? Probably because he's not a cuck like Duff and Slash and he wanted the money figured out first. That's my speculation though. I won't claim objective fact like a retard.

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1 hour ago, magisme said:

I won't claim objective fact like a retard.

>not citing all of your opinions as fact and doubling down at all times

you wouldn't last a day behind the sportsnet desk

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Before calling me a retard, just fucking accept the truth : Izzy is NOT good enough anymore on guitar for Guns N’ Roses.

 

He was and has been replaced by a much more talented  guitar player than him a long, long time ago.

 

 

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all that is part of the mystic of being a fan of GNR ...

insist on Izzy's return;
create unnecessary threads;
post videos that have already been posted;
believe in the tooth fairy ...
etc

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Izzy can barely play a guitar at this point of his life. Imagine doing it almost every night for months. I don't think Fortus is this amazing guitar god. I think Izzy being there would be much cooler. But the guys is done musically. Has been for decades.

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1 hour ago, caraibes said:

Before calling me a retard, just fucking accept the truth : Izzy is NOT good enough anymore on guitar for Guns N’ Roses.

 

He was and has been replaced by a much more talented  guitar player than him a long, long time ago.

 

If you're too Brazilian to admit that the article you posted says nothing that backs up your version of history, then you are correctly called a retard.

 

44 minutes ago, deelowbrown said:

Back to the first person discussion, is Dust n' Bones the only song that doesn't have an "I" or "me"?

Sooooooo close.

 

There's no logic here today
Do as you got to, go your own way
I said that's right

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45 minutes ago, deelowbrown said:

Back to the first person discussion, is Dust n' Bones the only song that doesn't have an "I" or "me"?

And I said that’s alright? 

 

They can’t do it. Utter failures at second person narration. I don’t even know what it is but damn step it up. 

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Ok, one more stab at it.  I think you could argue that Move to the city is 2nd person narration, of course that was written by Del and Chirs and Izzy?

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2 minutes ago, deelowbrown said:

Ok, one more stab at it.  I think you could argue that Move to the city is 2nd person narration, of course that was written by Del and Chirs and Izzy?

This has to be it? 

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I think if Axl wrote a song about Trump it would be in legit 3rd. He’d give him a nick name and say things like “He’s eating Mickey Ds, watching his favorite looney tunes” Chorus: What’s Donnie Triumph saying again? 

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5 minutes ago, deelowbrown said:

Ok, one more stab at it.  I think you could argue that Move to the city is 2nd person narration, of course that was written by Del and Chirs and Izzy?

I'm always buyin' With the local and the junkies

...

Come on and hit me

 

6 minutes ago, wasted said:

“You know we tried to reach you but you were much too high”

 

First or second?

 

 

"We" makes it first, unless it's all quotes like we were saying before.

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45 minutes ago, magisme said:

I'm always buyin' With the local and the junkies

...

Come on and hit me

 

"We" makes it first, unless it's all quotes like we were saying before.

Does one slip cancel 2nd or is it shifting perspectives?

 

So really OIAM is 2 first perspectives. Axl/racist character and the We (Axl said in interviews it was people from back in Indianna saying he’ll never make it or something) I don’t know if this is admissable because who would know that? 

 

Whatever personal experience Axl used he went way over the top into an almost parody character. Nobody could care this much about hate crimes. So as a listener you also have to think why is the chorus like a response to this guy? The writer is shifting from one head to another in a similar way as in 3rd.

 

It’s not unlike Rocket Queen so it shouldn’t be beyond the listener. But Rocket Queen seems like a rape scene followed by an apology sometimes. Saying it’s like a Third person character helps to distance what is happening from the writer, especially when First people really take as the singer in songs.

 

Axl made the point in court that Brownstone was Izzy not him, he saw the song as about addiction in general, not encouraging Steven to do bad things. If they had said this is a First person character song they would’ve had to pay Steven even more. 

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3 hours ago, caraibes said:

Before calling me a retard, just fucking accept the truth : Izzy is NOT good enough anymore on guitar for Guns N’ Roses.

 

He was and has been replaced by a much more talented  guitar player than him a long, long time ago.

 

 

I think Fortus and Izzy would have both been on the tour. Fortus knows all the CD stuff. Axl offered Dj a spot in the 3 guitar line up. So that was Izzy’s spot if he wanted. 

 

I think it’s more likely the money. The Big 3 get bigger cuts, but after the band is paid and the tour, the big 3 get the profits. So Izzy would be getting paid like Fortus. He wanted equal loot. Maybe even the OG 5 line up. He has said he thinks that is the GNR line up. The whole thing has just developed beyond that. I’m not even sure the 5 could complete these tours. The big 3 have a track record and they are backed by pros who never get sick at sea. 

 

To do this huge tour he would probably hate.So the balance is not there.  He didn’t do many big shows in 91. He also did an interview with Nick Kent where he mocks The Stones for playing stadiums.  So he has this kind of feeling. We’re not cool anymore.

 

It’s weird that he didn’t show up for the early shows, but that might have derailed things. If he came and left people would be saying I saw Izzy at Coachella, you aren’t seeing GNR. Ticket sales drop. And also think how sidelined he is in the next GNR record, Axl has his material, Slash is there, it’s just not Izzy’s style. 

Edited by wasted

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1 hour ago, wasted said:

Does one slip cancel 2nd or is it shifting perspectives?

 

So really OIAM is 2 first perspectives. Axl/racist character and the We (Axl said in interviews it was people from back in Indianna saying he’ll never make it or something) I don’t know if this is admissable because who would know that? 

 

Whatever personal experience Axl used he went way over the top into an almost parody character. Nobody could care this much about hate crimes. So as a listener you also have to think why is the chorus like a response to this guy? The writer is shifting from one head to another in a similar way as in 3rd.

 

It’s not unlike Rocket Queen so it shouldn’t be beyond the listener. But Rocket Queen seems like a rape scene followed by an apology sometimes. Saying it’s like a Third person character helps to distance what is happening from the writer, especially when First people really take as the singer in songs.

 

Axl made the point in court that Brownstone was Izzy not him, he saw the song as about addiction in general, not encouraging Steven to do bad things. If they had said this is a First person character song they would’ve had to pay Steven even more. 

I'd have to take it on a case by case, but there absolutely can be shifting perspectives. If we were to consider a stanza a unit of measurement, say, we could evaluate each stanza on its own. As far as OIAM, I agree that it is two different first person voices.

 

The narrator is never the author. That's what's hard for people to understand, I think. But it's also hard to tell with music, because someone can say something like, "I wrote this song about my relationship with Stacey," and then when it's in first person and he calls the girl Stacey, you're like "That's him!" That's also why Axl can say the it's a character and people can say, "Yeah, but is it really? Or is that a cover story?" Axl probably should have understood that these lyrics were a no-win situation regardless of his intentions, but then again there are a lot of things I probably should have understood better when I was in my twenties too.

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3 hours ago, auad said:

JB pls lock this shit!

>GNFNR

>locked threads

Nigga, this ain't Mafia.

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1 hour ago, magisme said:

I'd have to take it on a case by case, but there absolutely can be shifting perspectives. If we were to consider a stanza a unit of measurement, say, we could evaluate each stanza on its own. As far as OIAM, I agree that it is two different first person voices.

 

The narrator is never the author. That's what's hard for people to understand, I think. But it's also hard to tell with music, because someone can say something like, "I wrote this song about my relationship with Stacey," and then when it's in first person and he calls the girl Stacey, you're like "That's him!" That's also why Axl can say the it's a character and people can say, "Yeah, but is it really? Or is that a cover story?" Axl probably should have understood that these lyrics were a no-win situation regardless of his intentions, but then again there are a lot of things I probably should have understood better when I was in my twenties too.

I think that’s how people write songs too. About themselves not realizing or knowing about First person. Whereas with fiction people write with I but seem to want it to be a character. Or they start with 3rd. John put on his socks. 

 

It seems like you can’t be as thought or deep in first person. You can’t tackle the issue of race relations by just going yo here’s my racist character. That’s why people make documentaries I guess or write books. 

 

The reality is I can’t imagine living on the streets of LA. The words in the song probably do capture the fear I would be feeling. I would not be googling Third person stuff. If someone pulled a knife on me at the bus station I might say a no no word adter they took all my valuables. I’m okay with it as just reporting fron the streets. Hell is a fun place to visit. I can see that you might act all hard in that situation. 

 

Not sure when this Duff interview is from but these days it has to be a Third person character. You’ll get deplatformed quicker than Alex Jones if you pop up with this song. Bieber covers OIAM. Escourted to secluded island by armed guards. He’d have to stage his own death. 

 

Catcher is easier to look at. First person character (played by Axl) of the Holden Cauldield Syndrome Sufferer in verses, then First person character (Axl playing Axl) calling him out in the chorus. Axl seemed to say that it’s his voice. But Axl is playing all the characters. The first person Axl character is narrating, it’s not actually Axl. Which is confusing because you literally know it’s Axl. The hard part is the verses where Axl is playing the Syndrome sufferer. 

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