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dave-gnfnr2k

Duff interview

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I saw Deep Third Person earlier and it kind of seems applicable

 

http://kristenstieffel.com/the-difference-between-third-person-pov-and-deep-pov/

 

As I understand it Deep TP pov is a bit like Limited TP but puts you in the shoes of the character and only narrates through the eyes of the character. 

 

In a way Axl’s racist character seems to know too much about how he is being viewed. It’s like the third person narrator has invaded a first person character. 

 

 

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This talking about Third Person narrators. 

 

“Also, in omniscient POV, the narrator persona can give commentary on or interpretation of the character’s thoughts, as when Tolstoy, describing his character Anna Scherer in War and Peace, compares her to a spoiled child—not an interpretation she’d likely make of herself. This kind of judgment is not usually made by a generic limited narrator. The best omniscient narrators show real personality, such as the narrator of A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens. That narrator is downright snarky.

Just to confuse things more, there’s also an “objective” POV, in which the generic narrator delivers only what is externally discernible, does not share anyone’s thoughts, and does not have a personality, snarky or otherwise.

Deep POV eliminates the generic narrator, so the POV character essentially is the narrator. This requires showing only what the character knows, seeing things through the character’s eyes, and writing the narrative in the character’s own voice”

 

So Axl could have been using Deep Third Person narration. 

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1 hour ago, magisme said:

I'm pretty sure this is correct

Pretty Tied Up ? verses at least ? Then again, it's Izzy's song. Axl has never written a song in third person.

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41 minutes ago, wasted said:

This talking about Third Person narrators. 

 

“Also, in omniscient POV, the narrator persona can give commentary on or interpretation of the character’s thoughts, as when Tolstoy, describing his character Anna Scherer in War and Peace, compares her to a spoiled child—not an interpretation she’d likely make of herself. This kind of judgment is not usually made by a generic limited narrator. The best omniscient narrators show real personality, such as the narrator of A Christmas Carol by Charles Dickens. That narrator is downright snarky.

Just to confuse things more, there’s also an “objective” POV, in which the generic narrator delivers only what is externally discernible, does not share anyone’s thoughts, and does not have a personality, snarky or otherwise.

Deep POV eliminates the generic narrator, so the POV character essentially is the narrator. This requires showing only what the character knows, seeing things through the character’s eyes, and writing the narrative in the character’s own voice”

 

So Axl could have been using Deep Third Person narration. 

Nope. Deep Third Person still says "he" and "she". It's just that the narrator can also communicate the characters thoughts. If the narrator is a character who says "I", it is first person.

 

15 minutes ago, Ragnar said:

Pretty Tied Up ? verses at least ? Then again, it's Izzy's song. Axl has never written a song in third person.

 

Quote
I know this chick she lives down on Melrose
She ain't satisfied without some pain
Friday night is goin' up inside her...again
Well crack the whip
'Cause that bitch is just insane
I'm serious

First person.

 

Quote
Once there was this rock n' roll band
Rollin' on the streets
Time went by and it became a joke
We just needed more and more fulfilling... uh-huh
Time went by and it all went up in smoke
But check it out

Arguably third person. Axl changes his voice for the "we just needed" part, so that part sounds sort of like a mocking quote instead of first person.

 

Quote
Once you made that money it costs more now
It might cost a lot more than you'd think
I just found a million dollars
that someone forgot
It's days like this that push me o'er the brinks
Cool and stressing
[pronounced: cool ranch dres'ing]

Second person transitions into first person, unless that "I" is a quote similar to the "we just needed".

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He said she said is the generic narrator though. 

 

“so the POV character essentially is the narrator“

 

I mean their defintions are just a guide, I’m out here innovating. 

 

Sorry is the uktimate Second Person tease. You don’t know why...I won’t god damn it stop using I. Do a proper concept album. Ghost N Goblins. 

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18 minutes ago, magisme said:
Quote
I know this chick she lives down on Melrose
She ain't satisfied without some pain
Friday night is goin' up inside her...again
Well crack the whip
'Cause that bitch is just insane
I'm serious

First person.

Sorry teacher, this sounds like a third person to me :lol:.

 

Izzy is talking about a crazy bitch who's into BDSM :lol:.

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10 minutes ago, wasted said:

He said she said is the generic narrator though. 

 

“so the POV character essentially is the narrator“

 

I mean their defintions are just a guide, I’m out here innovating. 

 

Sorry is the uktimate Second Person tease. You don’t know why...I won’t god damn it stop using I. Do a proper concept album. Ghost N Goblins. 

Deep third person won't necessarily say "he said" or "she said", but when they refer to the character within the narration, they refer to them by their name or as he/she. Look at the examples in the link you provided.

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1 minute ago, Ragnar said:

Sorry teacher, this sounds like a third person to me :lol:.

 

Izzy is talking about a crazy bitch who's into BDSM :lol:.

"I know this chick..." is the set up. A first person voice is telling you about a crazy bitch he knows.

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4 minutes ago, magisme said:

Deep third person won't necessarily say "he said" or "she said", but when they refer to the character within the narration, they refer to them by their name or as he/she. Look at the examples in the link you provided.

We’ve got to work around their examples here. Deep Cover Third Person. Mold it to the OIAM prototype pioneered by Axl. Only this will save him from

being eaten by the far left. 

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3 minutes ago, wasted said:

We’ve got to work around their examples here. Deep Cover Third Person. Mold it to the OIAM prototype pioneered by Axl. Only this will save him from

being eaten by the far left. 

If saving Axl is the goal, then I think we go with the third first person thing you suggested. It's not a real thing, but nothing is a real thing until it is.

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1 minute ago, magisme said:

If saving Axl is the goal, then I think we go with the third first person thing you suggested. It's not a real thing, but nothing is a real thing until it is.

I doubt the dummies in the media will know. If we tell them OIAM is a woke classic in Deep Cover Third Person they will pronably love it. What’s that website that blocked me but uses all my speculation for clickbait stories? Alt nation? Alt something? 

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1 minute ago, Gordon Comstock said:

And it's a cover. That was the joke.

I thought it was funny. :P 

Covers are Third Person by definition. 

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BREAKING NEWS....intellectual discussion on Gnfnr forum...no fat, no shit...this is amazing folks...it’s live now..

 

 

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1 minute ago, Gordon Comstock said:

And it's a cover. That was the joke.

I thought it was funny. :P 

I was too deep in teacher mode to get the joke. I tend to be oblivious to humor when I'm being serious. Gullible almost.

 

5 minutes ago, wasted said:

I doubt the dummies in the media will know. If we tell them OIAM is a woke classic in Deep Cover Third Person they will pronably love it. What’s that website that blocked me but uses all my speculation for clickbait stories? Alt nation? Alt something? 

I like it. Axl is Donnie Brasco.

 

4 minutes ago, wasted said:

My Michelle is Second Person surely. 

In second person, the audience is the "you". That's why LALD kind of works as second person. "You" in My Michelle is Michelle. The narrator reveals himself a couple of times with "I". He's a character in the story with Michelle.

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7 minutes ago, magisme said:

I was too deep in teacher mode to get the joke. I tend to be oblivious to humor when I'm being serious. Gullible almost.

 

I like it. Axl is Donnie Brasco.

 

In second person, the audience is the "you". That's why LALD kind of works as second person. "You" in My Michelle is Michelle. The narrator reveals himself a couple of times with "I". He's a character in the story with Michelle.

Second person is like a prosecutor at trial?

 

It’s more like a politician giving a speech maybe. 

 

But the you in OIAM is not the audience? 

 

Edited by wasted

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35 minutes ago, magisme said:

"I know this chick..." is the set up. A first person voice is telling you about a crazy bitch he knows.

Come to think of it, you're right.

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2 minutes ago, wasted said:

Second person is like a prosecutor at trial?

I'm not sure how you mean.

 

Think of it like that old guy who sits in a chair at the end of the stage during some plays. He's not part of the action himself, but he gives you insights and addresses you (the audience) directly.

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4 hours ago, wasted said:

Shackler’s and Catcher are in the spirit of Third Person

All three songs were writen from point of view.

 

Catcher from Holden Caulfield's, Shackler's from a shooter's and OIAM is as first person as it gets. Even if it's a "character".

 

So, yeah, hardly in the spirit of a thid person :lol:

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just to remind you @dave-gnfnr2k, this interview had already been posted by me before, in the thread:

 

 

check out the threads, to not create another unnecessary thread.

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8 minutes ago, wasted said:

It’s more like a politician giving a speech maybe.

I guess until they get to the "... and here's what I'm gonna do about it" part maybe.

 

10 minutes ago, wasted said:

But the you in OIAM is not the audience?

My take it that "you" is the character from the verses, but I could be wrong. It's like the verses and chorus are two different first person narrators. But this is also why we could say that there is no narrator and it's all just quotation.

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17 minutes ago, Ragnar said:

Both songs were writen from point of view.

 

Catcher from Holden Caulfield's and Shackler's from a shooter's

 

So, yeah, hardly in the spirit of a thid person :lol:

Axl put in the hard method acting to create the character. Then it was used in the Third Person narrative. There’s a latent Holden Syndrome Sufferer said just out of shot. Same with Axl playing The Shooter. It’s in the spirit of Third Person, not so much First person because there’s more than one character in the audio movie. 

Edited by wasted

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1 minute ago, magisme said:

I guess until they get to the "... and here's what I'm gonna do about it" part maybe.

 

My take it that "you" is the character from the verses, but I could be wrong. It's like the verses and chorus are two different first person narrators. But this is also why we could say that there is no narrator and it's all just quotation.

In the Third person version the verses are The Racist, the chorus is the moral majority calling him out. Two characters but the he said she said generic narrator is hidden because it’s a rock n roll song. It’s more like dialogue in a movie than two shifting perspectives. 

 

But another theory is it’s actually a first person self portrait. As in it’s okder Axl calling out younger Axl in the context of a past that doesn’t like either version. 

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