Jump to content

Recommended Posts

  • Replies 73
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Top Posters In This Topic

Popular Posts

>Guns N’ Roses bassist Duff McKagan talks about his solo album, his acoustic track “Parkland” and gun control. >55 minutes   SHIT

Cringe-o-meter has gone through the roof 

11 hours ago, Gordon Comstock said:

52:35

I lol'd at his response:

 

 

 

He sounds fucked up. Has the NITL tour really aged him that rapidly? :duff:

 

"Woke Axl" reference around 48:50 btw. I didn't watch the whole thing, I skipped to 47~ mins to see his defence for One In A Million.

What was his defence of One in the Million? 

Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, wasted said:

What was his defence of One in the Million? 

Interviewer: I understood when that song came out that it was in 'character'.

 

Duff: Third-person, yea.

 

Interviewer: Kinda like when Dire Straits' Money For Nothing came out, it had the F word in it, and it was from a character of a homophobe basically criticizing something on MTV, that song got censored as well on radio. Did it surprise you at the time that people didn't get what that song was, that it wasn't coming out of Axl's mouth? Because you said, people in your circle didn't use that language.

 

Duff: No, um... I was surprised that, it was, yea... we were supposed to play David Geffen's big AIDs benefit in New York a couple months later, we got pulled out of that. I remember getting on a plane, flying back to Seattle, and an African American flight attendant came up and sat down next to me, and said "do you really hate black people?". I'm like "oh fuck", y'know, part of my family is African American, Slash is half, y'know, um, so people didn't kinda put that together. Hopefully now later, people can examine that song, and I think it's brilliant and super brave of Axl to step out and do that. It was public commentary, just like Paradise City is, just like Jungle is, that song was extreme using the verbiage of the street y'know, of ill-informed people, on the street.

 

Interviewer: Axl's been very vocal on twitter lately, there's a new term, called Woke Axl.

 

Duff: Is that right? He is woke! I know woke 'cause I'm around teenagers. If you're gonna try to outsmart him, or out-intellectual him, it ain't gonna work.

 

Edited by Gordon Comstock
Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Gordon Comstock said:

Interviewer: I understood when that song came out that it was in 'character'.

 

Duff: Third-person, yea.

 

Interviewer: Kinda like when Dire Straits' Money For Nothing came out, it had the F word in it, and it was from a character of a homophobe basically criticizing something on MTV, that song got censored as well on radio. Did it surprise you at the time that people didn't get what that song was, that it wasn't coming out of Axl's mouth? Because you said, people in your circle didn't use that language.

 

Duff: No, um... I was surprised that, it was, yea... we were supposed to play David Geffen's big AIDs benefit in New York a couple months later, we got pulled out of that. I remember getting on a plane, flying back to Seattle, and an African American flight attendant came up and sat down next to me, and said "do you really hate black people?". I'm like "oh fuck", y'know, part of my family is African American, Slash is half, y'know, um, so people didn't kinda put that together. Hopefully now later, people can examine that song, and I think it's brilliant and super brave of Axl to step out and do that. It was public commentary, just like Paradise City is, just like Jungle is, that song was extreme using the verbiage of the street y'know, of ill-informed people, on the street.

 

Interviewer: Axl's been very vocal on twitter lately, there's a new term, called Woke Axl.

 

Duff: Is that right? He is woke! I know woke 'cause I'm around teenagers. If you're gonna try to outsmart him, or out-intellectual him, it ain't gonna work.

 

To be fair Axl couched it more as a real song from the streets, him getting off the bus and being scared. He should’ve been very clear it was a character. And maybe had a more overt rejection. Or not. Spin the barrels!

 

But in a way any song is a character. Even Zack de la Rocha gets off stage and uses electricity to make a Pot Noodle. He can’t embody his songs completely. It really has more to do with what you think the role of a song is. If you are looking for manifestos in rock songs then you will be lead astray. Art makes hypicrites of us all. 

 

I guess it’s when you have a certain context that you put a song into you have to be careful. It’s not necessarily going to get a nuanced assessment from a panel of geniuses. There are actual Warrant fans out there. 

Edited by wasted
Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, magisme said:

Third-person cannot say "I" or "you". The entire song is objectively in first-person (verses) and second-person (chorus).

That’s the basics. There’s two types of Third person. There’s the narrator that is everywhere doing characters. Then there’s one where the writer only has one character but he uses “I” to describe what his character does. Patrick Bateman is a limited Third person narrator I think. 

 

I might be wrong. This explains it better. 

 

“There are two types of third-person point of view. A third-person point of view can be omniscient, in which the narrator knows all of the thoughts and feelings of all of the characters in the story, or it can be limited. If it's limited, the narrator only relates his or her own thoughts, feelings, and knowledge of various situations and other characters. Very often new writers feel most comfortable with first-person, perhaps because it seems familiar, but writing in the third-person actually affords a writer much more freedom in how they tell the story.”

Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, magisme said:

You are.

I don’t actually think so in terms of definitions. 

 

But Axl could have been refering to himself in the verses. 

 

But in a way the whole thing could be true Third person because there’s 3 characters. It’s just in the song Axl does say who is talking. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, magisme said:

No. You're completely misunderstanding the distinction between these voices. Maybe I'll explain tomorrow when I have more energy.

 

It doesn't matter whether Axl was referring to himself or a character. It is first and second person, exactly as I said, objectively and by definition.

 

Signed,

English Teacher

No, you’re right it’s more shifting perspectives than 3rd person.

 

But it’s not a story, it’s lyrics. The I said or He said are omitted because it’s song or script. 

 

I think Axl used a first person character probably based on personal experience in the way a writer would use Third person. In a story or script it would have been written He said “Police...” 

If he’s writing dialogue does that change it? 

 

In the song it comes off more Axl writing letters to himself. Or even the chorus attacking the same people the verses do. 

 

I understand what you are saying. But I’m still confused. Objectively based on the words on the page you are right. There’s just a grey area bevause it’s a song trying to be a movie. 

 

I think what Duff/interview are saying is the verses are the racist talking, so it would be preceded by a The racist said. Then the chorus would have a Axl said. So it’s like cutting dialogue out of a script. Or it could all be from a racist’s pov, verse and chorus. Then it should have a The racist said at the top of the song. It’s maybe inferred that the narrator is the singer. 

 

But why write that song. You need the rejection of the chorus. 

 

It’s a bit like Duff’s Parkland song, just putting this out there. Here’s an example of something I think might be bad. But I think OIAM rejects the verses. Whether it’s 1st or 3rd. 

 

 

Edited by wasted
Link to post
Share on other sites
31 minutes ago, magisme said:

If he wrote, "Police and niggers, get out of my way" it's first person.

 

If he wrote "Police and niggers, get out of my way," he said.... it's third person, unless the narrator is a character in the story too and not just the narrator, in which case it would remain first person.

 

If he wrote, "You're one in a million" and it's just a narrator saying "you" it's second person.

 

"You're one in a million," he said. = third person

 

"I said to him, 'you're one in a million.'" = first person

 

Third person means that the narrator is not a character in the story/song aside from narrating. He is an outside voice. He might be omniscient or he might have special insight into one main character - doesn't matter - if the narrator is not a character who is part of the action, it is third person. If the narrator speaks as a character in the action, it is first person. This is why your Bateman example doesn't work as third person. He narrates as Bateman, a character in the movie, therefore it's first person. Liotta in Goodfellas too.

 

I'm not making a moral judgment on Axl by saying it's first person. Plenty of repugnant characters are presented in first person. It doesn't mean he agrees with what the first person character says or does, but it does make it easy for the listener to think that the character is Axl himself. Lyrics tend to be first person, so we tend to assume that the writer is the character, which is not necessarily the case. Third person songs are rarer. All Along The Watchtower would be one if memory serves.

I agree the Patrick Bateman example is wrong. 

 

I think Duff/interviewer are saying the Racist said or he said are ommitted because it’s a song. It’s a song trying to be a movie. 

 

That’s why the song was taken the wrong way. But that was a risky move. 

 

And it’s not how Axl explained the song at first. He was more saying it was like being scared getting off the bus. So it captured real street talk. 

 

I don’t think people see Shackler’s and Catcher as 3rd person movies either. 

 

Yeah but why write that song in first person? You at least need the chorus to balance it out. If you go first person then you have to claim free speech or irony. Shifting perspectives I guess is okay. There’s the context of you were too high, even admitting not lnowing right from wrong. It’s a darker song in first person. Axl alluded to that also by saying it’s a song he used to get things done. I’m in this shit situation, but I’m one in a million or even the sarcastic call from indianna say you won’t make it. That’s how it comes across. The aggressive delivery and determination seem to be what people hear. Not the ominous sadness of the outro. 

Edited by wasted
Link to post
Share on other sites
3 minutes ago, magisme said:

"seem to ME"

"remind ME"

"I see her face"

 

It's about the girl, but the narrator is a character who says "I", therefore first person.

 

Same with Shackler's and Catcher.

 

I'm not sure Guns has a third person song.

Shackler’s and Catcher are like OIAM in that the he said parts are ommitted. 

 

Blur do more obvious third person songs. He’s on time yet again. That’s 3rd person? But as soon as the lyric writer says I think he’s lame, it loses it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

Loading...

×
×
  • Create New...