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John Bonham

Long piece chronicling the history and future of Chinese Democracy

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Just now, Ragnar said:

Why should anyone throw in TSI ? it`s a cover album for fucks sake :lol:. Keep quiet, Wasted.

Spaghetti Incident is more relevant than Coda. Most GNR albums are Slash coverimg Izzy and Axl songs. 

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43 minutes ago, wasted said:

Yeah I think so. 

 

If you add Shadow of your Love it’s 65. 

 

I’m throwing Coda out the window. At least two of the songs are re-records and there’s a drum solo

track. 

 

So Zepp are down to 79. 

 

That’s more like 20%?

 

So a 14 track cd from GNR is all I need to win this thread. 

 

 

I will not let you win this counting contest.

 

I'm throwing out UYI II. Get In The Ring, Shotgun Blues, KOHD, So Fine, and My World are on there.

 

GNR down to 50 songs, and I'm generously allowing CD to stand even though it doesn't really count.

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Rolling Stones have released more than 300 songs.

 

Why are people justifying GnR’s output by comparing them to a bands with low outputs? And....didn’t the Doors, Zeppelin and The Sex Pistols all stop making music because of fhe DEATH of a key band member?

 

Would Jim Morrison have released more music if he hadn’t, you know, died?

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11 hours ago, Skeeter said:

Rolling Stones have released more than 300 songs.

 

Why are people justifying GnR’s output by comparing them to a bands with low outputs? And....didn’t the Doors, Zeppelin and The Sex Pistols all stop making music because of fhe DEATH of a key band member?

 

Would Jim Morrison have released more music if he hadn’t, you know, died?

No he quit to go be a poet in Paris. He thought rock was dead as an art form. When they tried to put Light My Fire in a commercial he threw a tv at the wall. Mad props to a real one. 

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On 1/15/2019 at 8:24 AM, wasted said:

Spaghetti Incident is more relevant than Coda

Coda is original songs. Spaghetti is all covers 

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Just now, John Bonham said:

Coda is original songs. Spaghetti is all covers 

But Spag songs are good songs and Coda is songs that didn’t make the original albums? A couple might be re-records. There’s a drum solo. Spag had a few singles. Since I don’t had a video. 

 

Guns could still do an album like this. Crash diet and Shadow with a few CD leftovers. Dig up a Matt perm inspired drum solo. 

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9 minutes ago, wasted said:

But Spag songs are good songs and Coda is songs that didn’t make the original albums? A couple might be re-records. There’s a drum solo. Spag had a few singles. Since I don’t had a video. 

 

Guns could still do an album like this. Crash diet and Shadow with a few CD leftovers. Dig up a Matt perm inspired drum solo. 

Darlene alone  is better than the whole TSI? album put together.

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4 hours ago, wasted said:

No he quit to go be a poet in Paris. He thought rock was dead as an art form. When they tried to put Light My Fire in a commercial he threw a tv at the wall. Mad props to a real one. 

Thank you for proving my point. 

 

Would The Doors musical output had been larger if their lead singer hadn’t quit the band? 

 

Would Zep have more songs if Bonham didn’t die?

 

Why is the bar for GnR ONLY bands that have had members die or bands that broke up early in their careers? 

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2 hours ago, magisme said:

I'm gonna go for a run and listen to CD. I give it one spin every 2-3 years.

Maybe this time you will give Riad the respect it deserves!!!!!

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4 hours ago, Skeeter said:

Thank you for proving my point. 

 

Would The Doors musical output had been larger if their lead singer hadn’t quit the band? 

 

Would Zep have more songs if Bonham didn’t die?

 

Why is the bar for GnR ONLY bands that have had members die or bands that broke up early in their careers? 

Maybe what makes them great is they didn’t do anything terrible. If they had dropped down into repeating themselves they would be lower on my list. They are up there with the Beatles. Whereas as Stones and DC aren’t quite as mythic to me. I listen to those bands more though. Well I have about 4-5 albums from each bands actually. So I’m proving my point. 

 

I’m saying GNR did enough to not have their discography maligned. Most bands come down to a 2-cd Best of. Nirvana have it, Faith No More, Soundgarden. I guess GNR are in this group. I just see them as the Zepp of the 90s. 

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5 minutes ago, wasted said:

Maybe what makes them great is they didn’t do anything terrible. If they had dropped down into repeating themselves they would be lower on my list. They are up there with the Beatles. Whereas as Stones and DC aren’t quite as mythic to me. I listen to those bands more though. Well I have about 4-5 albums from each bands actually. So I’m proving my point. 

 

I’m saying GNR did enough to not have their discography maligned. Most bands come down to a 2-cd Best of. Nirvana have it, Faith No More, Soundgarden. I guess GNR are in this group. I just see them as the Zepp of the 90s. 

So just to be clear.....you would rather have 4-5 albums from your favorite bands rather than 10-15 albums from them.....because you don’t think album number 12 would be as good as album number 2?

 

The Beatles boys had pretty strong solo careers. Gotta think they could have produced some more pretty quality music. 

 

is there a specific age or song number where you think a band/musician should stop writing and sharing their music? “Sorry Mr. Rose. I know you are only 28, but Estranged was your 50th song. You should now just become a jukebox band and never release any new music for the rest of your career. You will never have a song as big as Jungle or Nov Rain - so just stop trying.”

 

That is an interesting philosophy. Does it apply to other aspects of life? No more eating at your favorite restaurant because they could never top your favorite meal. No more sex with your wife because she doesn’t look as good at 35 as she did at 25? No more watching your favorite actor because he won’t ever be in a movie as good as the one he was in that you love? 

 

Just a total difference of opinion. No worries - I fully support and respect your opinion. It’s just weird for me to imagine that fans of a band wouldn’t want to hear new music from that band. Or that fans would think their favorite bands weren’t talented enough to make more than a couple good albums. 

 

I would love to have 5 more GnR albums and 3 Axl Rose solo albums to listen to. I’ve listened to SCOM 23,937 times. I would love to be able to choose from 150 songs with Axl on vocals than just 60.

 

I have faith he could have made some great music over the past 20 years. 

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Just now, Skeeter said:

So just to be clear.....you would rather have 4-5 albums from your favorite bands rather than 10-15 albums from them.....because you don’t think album number 12 would be as good as album number 2?

 

The Beatles boys had pretty strong solo careers. Gotta think they could have produced some more pretty quality music. 

 

is there a specific age or song number where you think a band/musician should stop writing and sharing their music? “Sorry Mr. Rose. I know you are only 28, but Estranged was your 50th song. You should now just become a jukebox band and never release any new music for the rest of your career. You will never have a song as big as Jungle or Nov Rain - so just stop trying.”

 

That is an interesting philosophy. Does it apply to other aspects of life? No more eating at your favorite restaurant because they could never top your favorite meal. No more sex with your wife because she doesn’t look as good at 35 as she did at 25? No more watching your favorite actor because he won’t ever be in a movie as good as the one he was in that you love? 

 

Just a total difference of opinion. No worries - I fully support and respect your opinion. It’s just weird for me to imagine that fans of a band wouldn’t want to hear new music from that band. Or that fans would think their favorite bands weren’t talented enough to make more than a couple good albums. 

 

I would love to have 5 more GnR albums and 3 Axl Rose solo albums to listen to. I’ve listened to SCOM 23,937 times. I would love to be able to choose from 150 songs with Axl on vocals than just 60.

 

I have faith he could have made some great music over the past 20 years. 

That’s not it really. Want has nothing to do with it.

 

It’s just I value that each album is different. So I think AFD gobbled up a lot of hard rock influences and kind of made this definitive statement. UYI had some elements of it but moved away lyrically and they started doing more Zepp things like Locomotive and Come, Elton John and Queen came through, there was more rock n roll and punk styles. I value this over getting 4 AFDs. Then with CD the same thing happens. Zepp seem like they have 2 eras, early more hard rock, latter stage more experimental. There’s less of a clear story arch. I value the talent to communicate in hard rock on this level. It might be I just know Axl’s or GNR’s story better.

 

In rock I feel like GNR are operating at a higher than ACDC or the Stones. There’s more of an artistic vision for each record. I also give them leeway in terms of time come up with something a little better. Does it matter? I think some people don’t care. I think other bands do that, let Axl swing for the fences. 

 

I just appreciate GNR for what I think they are. I can wish with all my heart that they were more like ACDC but they won’t be because. If I thought Axl could knock out CD level albums every year I might be more frustrated. I just think GNR’s records have longevity. I can still go back to any of them and find it enjoyable or interesting. I don’t think that’s a happy accident. I enjoy Rock or Bust but very quickly I’m looking for another hit. I think both ways are fine. I have bands like the Manics that put albums all the time. As good as they are they have never hit the heights of GNR. They sort of have groups of similar albums they cycle around. Postcards is like Everything Must Go. Journal is Holy Bible 2. It’s fun but the art is diluted a little. And they would admit they are whores. 

Edited by wasted

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I listened to the whole album. Let me tell you a story about victory....

 

1992-1993: Slash offers Axl shit song after shit song

 

1993: Slash forms Snakepit. Axl gives zero fucks because he knows it's shit. I mean, fuckin' Gilby's in it.

 

1994: Axl thinks, "Is this literal half nig for real? We're the biggest band in the world. If he keeps it up, he'll end up playing ribfests or some shit. I own the name. I'll be fine."

 

1995: Snakepit releases It's Five O'clock Somewhere. In its fastest ruling ever, the IBO determines that it is objectively shit.

        

         "Hold my beer," says a grinning Axl.

 

1996: Under the name Axl's Hug Box, Axl releases his debut album, titled lol Slash, with the following tracklist:

 

Chinese Democracy

Better

There Was a Time

Catcher in the Rye

Riad N' the Bedouins

IRS

Madagascar

Prostitute

 

1997: Slash runs back to Axl, begins to call him "Sir" and "Massa", agrees to nanny Beta's kids. GNR hits the studio.

 

....

 

That's my ideal timeline. I've now gone full Skeeterwasted. You're welcome.

 

        

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25 minutes ago, magisme said:

I listened to the whole album. Let me tell you a story about victory....

 

1992-1993: Slash offers Axl shit song after shit song

 

1993: Slash forms Snakepit. Axl gives zero fucks because he knows it's shit. I mean, fuckin' Gilby's in it.

 

1994: Axl thinks, "Is this literal half nig for real? We're the biggest band in the world. If he keeps it up, he'll end up playing ribfests or some shit. I own the name. I'll be fine."

 

1995: Snakepit releases It's Five O'clock Somewhere. In its fastest ruling ever, the IBO determines that it is objectively shit.

        

         "Hold my beer," says a grinning Axl.

 

1996: Under the name Axl's Hug Box, Axl releases his debut album, titled lol Slash, with the following tracklist:

 

Chinese Democracy

Better

There Was a Time

Catcher in the Rye

Riad N' the Bedouins

IRS

Madagascar

Prostitute

 

1997: Slash runs back to Axl, begins to call him "Sir" and "Massa", agrees to nanny Beta's kids. GNR hits the studio.

 

....

 

That's my ideal timeline. I've now gone full Skeeterwasted. You're welcome.

 

        

I chuckled reading this. Thanks for the laughs :lol:

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16 hours ago, wasted said:

That’s not it really. Want has nothing to do with it.

 

It’s just I value that each album is different. So I think AFD gobbled up a lot of hard rock influences and kind of made this definitive statement. UYI had some elements of it but moved away lyrically and they started doing more Zepp things like Locomotive and Come, Elton John and Queen came through, there was more rock n roll and punk styles. I value this over getting 4 AFDs. Then with CD the same thing happens. Zepp seem like they have 2 eras, early more hard rock, latter stage more experimental. There’s less of a clear story arch. I value the talent to communicate in hard rock on this level. It might be I just know Axl’s or GNR’s story better.

 

In rock I feel like GNR are operating at a higher than ACDC or the Stones. There’s more of an artistic vision for each record. I also give them leeway in terms of time come up with something a little better. Does it matter? I think some people don’t care. I think other bands do that, let Axl swing for the fences. 

 

I just appreciate GNR for what I think they are. I can wish with all my heart that they were more like ACDC but they won’t be because. If I thought Axl could knock out CD level albums every year I might be more frustrated. I just think GNR’s records have longevity. I can still go back to any of them and find it enjoyable or interesting. I don’t think that’s a happy accident. I enjoy Rock or Bust but very quickly I’m looking for another hit. I think both ways are fine. I have bands like the Manics that put albums all the time. As good as they are they have never hit the heights of GNR. They sort of have groups of similar albums they cycle around. Postcards is like Everything Must Go. Journal is Holy Bible 2. It’s fun but the art is diluted a little. And they would admit they are whores. 

OK, I see where we differ now for sure. So no real need to keep going back-and-forth. It's just a fundamental difference.


"The art is diluted"..........

For me, it's just rock n roll music. "Turn around bitch I've got a use for you"........"take my down to paradise city where the grass is green and the girls are pretty".....I don't care about the art, the mystique, the persona, the iconicness (is that a word?), the Axl rants, lol a band's "integrity", how smart or dumb a band member is, is somebody a cuck or an employee, who has the best hair (fuckin-A, is the forum full of 13-year olds?)........I don't give a fuck about all that stuff.  All I care about is the Rock N' Roll that a band produces. Axl Rose is never going to be my friend, so why would I care if he is a prick or a pussy in real life? Some people actually get angry and their feelings hurt if you say something negative about the musician they worship - it's a weird concept. Or they get angry because a somebody is wearing a GnR shirt and "I bet they couldn't name two songs by the band."

 

For me, there is nothing art-worthy about the lyrics below. Taken on their own, they are a bit laughable. But mix those lyrics with Axl's screaming vocals and Slash's killer guitar work and a booming drum beat....and you have a fantastic ROCK SONG.

 

Art? Naw. Kick-ass rock and roll music? Yes sir.

 

I'm a cold heartbreaker
Fit ta burn and I'll rip your heart in two
And I'll leave you lyin' on the bed
I'll be out the door before you wake
It's nuthin' new to you
'Cause I think we've seen that movie too
'Cause you could be mine
But you're way out of line
With your bitch slap rappin'
And your cocaine tongue
You get nuthin' done
I said you could be mine
Now holidays come and then they go
It's nothin' new today
Collect another memory
When I come home late at night
Don't ask me where I've been
Just count your stars I'm home again
'Cause you could be mine
But you're way out of line
With your bitch slap rappin'
And your cocaine tongue
You get nuthin' done
I said you could be mine
You could be mine
You could be mine
You could be mine
You could be mine
You could

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7 hours ago, Skeeter said:

OK, I see where we differ now for sure. So no real need to keep going back-and-forth. It's just a fundamental difference.


"The art is diluted"..........

For me, it's just rock n roll music. "Turn around bitch I've got a use for you"........"take my down to paradise city where the grass is green and the girls are pretty".....I don't care about the art, the mystique, the persona, the iconicness (is that a word?), the Axl rants, lol a band's "integrity", how smart or dumb a band member is, is somebody a cuck or an employee, who has the best hair (fuckin-A, is the forum full of 13-year olds?)........I don't give a fuck about all that stuff.  All I care about is the Rock N' Roll that a band produces. Axl Rose is never going to be my friend, so why would I care if he is a prick or a pussy in real life? Some people actually get angry and their feelings hurt if you say something negative about the musician they worship - it's a weird concept. Or they get angry because a somebody is wearing a GnR shirt and "I bet they couldn't name two songs by the band."

 

For me, there is nothing art-worthy about the lyrics below. Taken on their own, they are a bit laughable. But mix those lyrics with Axl's screaming vocals and Slash's killer guitar work and a booming drum beat....and you have a fantastic ROCK SONG.

 

Art? Naw. Kick-ass rock and roll music? Yes sir.

 

I'm a cold heartbreaker
Fit ta burn and I'll rip your heart in two
And I'll leave you lyin' on the bed
I'll be out the door before you wake
It's nuthin' new to you
'Cause I think we've seen that movie too
'Cause you could be mine
But you're way out of line
With your bitch slap rappin'
And your cocaine tongue
You get nuthin' done
I said you could be mine
Now holidays come and then they go
It's nothin' new today
Collect another memory
When I come home late at night
Don't ask me where I've been
Just count your stars I'm home again
'Cause you could be mine
But you're way out of line
With your bitch slap rappin'
And your cocaine tongue
You get nuthin' done
I said you could be mine
You could be mine
You could be mine
You could be mine
You could be mine
You could

People get up tight about the word art. But I do think this idea plays a part in why GNR didn’t turn into a rock n roll factory.

 

Axl actually said once you get in a certain position you have a resposibility to try to do art. He also said something like he was happy with AFD/UYI. Now he wanted to see if they could add something to it. Not many people care maybe but he had this kind of idea. He didn’t want to remake albums. Kind of a problem. 

 

But I have offered that maybe it’s not quite as bad as all that because UYI II could have come out in 94-5. That would calmed things down. Maybe even mixing in Spaghetti in to get 3 cds. We got the material anyway. I think because Axl was kind of done creatively with UYI he just wanted it out and move on. But it proved harder to convince Slash to do that. 

 

Like you said there’s a difference in the way of doing things. And some like the clarity of the albums. They do map out different periods of life. I think Axl has a talent for recognising these different themes and writing lyrics appropriately. He doesn’t just throw political lyrics on top of sleaze rockers. To do different styles you have to be careful. 

 

 

 

 

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Just now, Bill Brasky said:

Can we use these walls of text to build a wall around GNFNR? 

The Wall isn’t to keep people out it’s to keep people in. 

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14 hours ago, wasted said:

People get up tight about the word art. But I do think this idea plays a part in why GNR didn’t turn into a rock n roll factory.

 

Axl actually said once you get in a certain position you have a resposibility to try to do art. He also said something like he was happy with AFD/UYI. Now he wanted to see if they could add something to it. Not many people care maybe but he had this kind of idea. He didn’t want to remake albums. Kind of a problem. 

 

But I have offered that maybe it’s not quite as bad as all that because UYI II could have come out in 94-5. That would calmed things down. Maybe even mixing in Spaghetti in to get 3 cds. We got the material anyway. I think because Axl was kind of done creatively with UYI he just wanted it out and move on. But it proved harder to convince Slash to do that. 

 

Like you said there’s a difference in the way of doing things. And some like the clarity of the albums. They do map out different periods of life. I think Axl has a talent for recognising these different themes and writing lyrics appropriately. He doesn’t just throw political lyrics on top of sleaze rockers. To do different styles you have to be careful. 

 

 

 

 

He also said that he would hate to become a band that just lived off of its old work. 

 

And what? Axl wanted to move on but he couldn’t convince Slash to do so as well? Since leaving GnR, Axl kept the GnR name, released one album and has made a living off the “old” material. In the same time period Slash has been in four different bands, guest played with numerous artists and has released like 8 albums. Slash has continued to release music for his fans to enjoy. Axl has remained stuck in 87-91. 

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