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8==D

Let's talk Izzy

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8==D    907

Let's have a real discussion on Izzy.

First of all, we only have Izzy's side of the story, which wasn't very specific. He only said they "didn't want to split the loot equally." That's not very specific, really. Split the loot equally for a fulltime gig with the band? Split the loot equally for guest spots on select songs at some shows?

 

Izzy's saying they didn't want to split the loot "equally". But what does equally entail? If Izzy said, "I'll do a couple of shows, and these songs only", should he being paid the same amount as Slash or Duff, who are doing every show and all songs? 

If Izzy made his appearance or rejoining conditioned on certain things, IE, "I will only come back if this happens, that happens, and for this fee. And no stadiums." - perhaps terms Axl, Slash, and Duff found unreasonable - Is it really so unfair that they'd say "Fuck that!" and offer him a lesser pay-grade?

Let's honestly consider Izzy for a minute. All of the guys harbor some level of resentment for Izzy unofficially leaving the band during the UYI guitar sessions. In multiple issues, Slash has said Izzy doesn't play on most of those albums because he just wasn't there. Which left Slash with the job of having to do overdubs, which I'm sure wasn't something Slash wanted to do. All three guys, even when they weren't talking, were consistent on Izzy's lack of participation in the band after 1989. Newly sober, he had his reasons for distancing himself. But to the rest of the band, this was a guy who wanted to be paid the same but wasn't really a full time member anymore.

Even if you feel the Don't Cry video was stupid, his refusal to show up to shoot it wasn't cool. Being in a band means you have to take part in the band's projects. Not showing up for recordings, mixing sessions, or video shoots is poor form. You can't show up to a job part time, and put in the bare minimum, and then hope to be paid equally or be considered as an equal. Even if you helped found the band. The "I co-founded the band" card can only be played so much.

He left them hanging high and dry on the eve of the next leg of the UYI tour, having to scramble to find a replacement two weeks before the next show. Even if his reasons for leaving were justified - and they were IMO - his timing was pretty piss poor. It could've ended the band, or fucked a lot of fans out of some cool shows if Gilby hadn't been found so quickly and hadn't been as adept as he was.

In 1993, he came back for 5 or 6 shows, and (according to Axl, Slash, and Duff) basically extorted them for what he felt was unpaid wages afterward. He didn't come back out of the kindness of his heart.

He bailed on Slash and Duff in VR. Ultimately, you can say "SCOTT WEILAND". Yes, but this was before Scott was involved. He didn't want to work with a lead singer. He wanted to be the lead singer with Duff joining him. He wanted control. Every single member of GN'R has control freak issues - Izzy's not immune.
 

You can pin his exclusion from the reunion purely down to Axl and Slash's greed, but if that was the case, why wasn't he invited to join Snakepit? There was no money issue there. Why wasn't he invited to join Slash's solo group as a full time rhythm player? Again, no multi million dollar considerations there. Why didn't Axl give Izzy a call to replace one of the NuGNR guitarists after he and Izzy had made amends? Why didn't Steven call him up to play in Adler's Appetite? Steven, who is probably the least money concerned of all of them, never seemed to have asked Izzy to join in any of his projects.
 

Since Izzy left the band in 1991, neither Axl, nor Slash, nor Duff, nor Steven have had much to do with him outside of the occasional song or show with any of them.. He's never been invited to any band with them since; he's never worked with any of them for any prolonged period, or been asked to, even when money wasn't the object. Even prior to this semi-reunion. 

You have to ask yourself "Why?"


 

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bacardimayne    7,068

yet another shit fat axl fat slash pancreasless duff apologist thread where miser picks the scenario that makes the fat trio look best and tries to convince himself and everyone else that it went down like that

Edited by bacardimayne

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Budd Dwyer    2,402

yet another shit fat axl fat slash pancreasless duff apologist thread where miser picks the scenario that makes the fat trio look best and tries to convince himself and everyone else that it went down like that

Thanks, you saved me a few minutes

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8==D    907

yet another shit fat axl fat slash pancreasless duff apologist thread where miser picks the scenario that makes the fat trio look best and tries to convince himself and everyone else that it went down like that

Doesn't really answer the question. The one constant since 1991 is none of the guys, including Steven, working with Izzy in any prolonged, consistent way. Why is that?

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wasted    1,036

Izzy is a bit optimistic to think he could just come back in and it be 1987 again. But isn't that what you would want to rekindle?

Maybe Slash actuslly likes UYI more than AFD.

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GnRLiars    1,598

I think it's Slash that has the problem with Izzy.

All of the other guys have worked with him in some form except Slash.

Izzys albums River, Ride On, On Down The Road & 117• have Duff playing.

He's guest spotted with Axl

Remember a few years back Adler wanted that reunion thing? Remember Slash went but didn't get on stage. Izzy did.

As for him playing with Slash, he did VR before it became a thing, even co wrote Do it For the Kids, and released it on his solo album under a different song.

I sorry I forget the name, but it's the album with the Dog on the cover (iTunes release)

But got no credits for anything

He cowrote and played Ghost (arguably Slashs best solo song)

But got no credit.

Even on stage, if you listen to early GnR shows, the sound is fuller, that 2 guitar sound.

By the UYI shows, all you hear is Slashs guitar.

Slash is obviously an introvert and seems insecure. maybe he's threatened by Izzy.

I've thought this for years. Slash and Izzy don't see eye to eye

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altered beast    2,519

Izzy is a God and if you were a real GnR fan, Miser, instead of a GnR message board fan, you would understand his importance to the group.  Each member can be criticized for their behavior.  Can we really blame Izzy for getting the fuck out of dodge back in the day?

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maynard    2,077

All of the other guys have worked with him in some form except Slash.

 

Doesn't Izzy play in Slash's "Ghost"?

 

You're mistaking Slash for Axl, buddy.

 

Izzy, supported by Axl, Slash, Duff and Steven, is a God indeed. By himself? lol.

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Damn_Smooth    4,507

I think you're all retarded for thinking any one person has a problem with another when we already know money is the problem. Izzy thinks he's worth more than he is, the rest of the band thinks he is worth less than he is. Any other drama is in your head. 

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Facekicker    4,072

 

All of the other guys have worked with him in some form except Slash.

 

Doesn't Izzy play in Slash's "Ghost"?

 

You're mistaking Slash for Axl, buddy.

 

Izzy, supported by Axl, Slash, Duff and Steven, is a God indeed. By himself? lol.

 

 

I heard that Ghost contribution was something he did with Slash year's ago and Slash just dug it out of the vault. 

 

Not sure how legit that is though.

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GnRLiars    1,598

So that just furthers my point.

Izzy does quite a bit with the other guys (Axl -Duff)

Helps out Adler,,

Goes uncredited with Slash. I don't think I'm wrong in my train of thought

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8==D    907

Slash said once he never liked playing with Izzy. 

"I love recording like this. During Appetite, Lies and Use Your... I had to put up with Izzy the whole time. I never liked playing with him. It was wonderful to escape him on this record. It sounds tighter and so much cooler than anything we've done before. I always got irritated over Izzy's way of playing. It didn't sound right. Before "Spaghetti", we erased his guitar and Gilby put on a new one. It sounded perfect!"

And Izzy on Slash:
 

"There's nothing more annoying than a guitarist just noodling. Shredding, it's horrid. It's the same thing when you try to get a band together, you always end up with these noodlers, y'know...[...] when I first met him, yeah. Slash was a noodler, man. I think he still is. Like in Guns N' Roses he would noodle but then the vocals would come back in and that would shut him up! [Total Guitar Magazine, August 2001]
 
I don't think they ever liked each other very much.

And like I said, he's not been in any band of Axl's, Slash's, Duff's or Steven's since 1991. He's not toured with them for any prolonged period, or worked with them on more than a few songs. Why is that?

 

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wasted    1,036

I don't think anyone knows what Izzy is thinking he bailed on VR.

Slash did play on Ghost with Izzy?

I thought Slash played on Like a Dog album?

Slash's style has always overshadowed Izzy. But Izzy wrote quite a bit but on UYI Izzy just got out and Slash took off with it.

Axl has quotes where he criticizes Slash for wanting to be the man out on the ego ramps. He's even said Slash wanted to take over the band with Snakepit record as GNR. Slash didn't care about Izzy leaving. They never really said we had this special thing that we should get back.

Izzy is the main one to laud the AFD 5.

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8==D    907

The introduction, first page of Reckless Road says that Izzy quit GNR when they first hired Slash, but he came back a few days, weeks later.

And Slash has admitted that he didn't want Izzy in the band at first, he wanted to be GN'R's only guitarist at first. I don't think that bad first impression on either side ever went away. Axl has spoken to that dynamic tension being the foundation for the dual guitar attack on AFD, because it's likely these two guys who each feel, 'It's my band' trying to do outdo each other. Maybe even both trying their best to impress Axl. I don't think you could ever really replicate that, because that hunger is of that time and that place. Look at the UYIs. I don't care what Slash says, there are enough bare bones parts of Izzy's that he didn't need to have what he did play mixed down. Yet at the same time, he didn't play with anywhere near the feeling or intensity that he did on AFD. And I think even if he was involved now, it'd be the same if they recorded a song. And while Izzy can put out an album a year, that doesn't mean his songwriting is at the the same level now as it was in 1991. Or that he could be relied on not to have second thoughts and bail the second week of recording.

Marc Canter has said that in the summer of 1996, Izzy came back into the band with 50 songs ready for Guns, and the whole band including Axl locked themselves in the studio for two weeks straight. And it didn't work out. The Appetite lineup working the way it did was a one time thing.The personalities in that band were joined by hunger, just as right now, Axl, Slash and Duff are united, once more, in hunger for more money. That's the only thing that ever held them together. 

 

They don't need Izzy on board to make music. That much is obvious from their respective solo music. The question is, can they make new music without running into the old conflicts that helped split them apart?

 

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GnRLiars    1,598

The introduction, first page of Reckless Road says that Izzy quit GNR when they first hired Slash, but he came back a few days, weeks later.

I missed that. I'll go back today and reread

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wasted    1,036

Yes I remember Izzy didn't want a second guitarist. The next level is Slash snd Duff quits. Izzy and Tommy comeback and Fortus wins again. Also I am right.

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bacardimayne    7,068

They don't need Izzy on board to make music. That much is obvious from their respective solo music. The question is, can they make new music without running into the old conflicts that helped split them apart?

Friendly reminder that (((Guns N' Roses))) has never EVER released original music without Izzy in the band, and Miser is am idiot who thinks the third rate bar playing, SCOM-ruining hack Gilby Clarke is better than the guy who makes up part of the integral AFD sound.

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wasted    1,036

Axl, Slash and Duff completely failed to make music after Izzy left. They did do stuff on UYI without Izzy so maybe it's just having someone to talk to Axl. I think Duff tried then gave up.

I just wonder what they can do with another album with just Slash, Axl and Duff on board. A repeat of UYI type material?

That's why having Nu Guns era material might help overall.

But then how to they fabricate success from the album.

I see Rock or Bust as a success in rock but I dare not look at sales. I saw no video.

I'd could see a cuter GNR album of 10 tracks especially with Izzy or just honing Slash solo type material.

But then is that GNR's job. To me they do huge event albums with big songs.

The label will probably want to put out a Live blu ray with the word Reunion on it. Album as merch.

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